Fish that shouldn’t be in the hobby?
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blecki
Well-Known Member
Yeah this is going to vary a lot by area. I can imagine you get some crazy stock in stores in larger cities. In my mid-size city I've got 3 decent LFSs and 1 shady one and the largest fish I've ever seen was a vlamingi tang in a 1600 gallon system that wasn't actually for sale.
ScurvyFrog
Community Member
Mako shark..... Definitely no Makos
ScurvyFrog
Community Member
All kidding aside - it would be interesting to see a list of fish that have super high mortality rate cross referenced with those that are terrible tank mates,
blecki
Well-Known Member
Theory being - that they have a high mortality rate because they are jerks and the established fish kill them?
Anyway given how ubiquitous they are and just how many are in the hobby I would expect the fish with the most premature deaths by sheer volume to be the clownfish.
Reefkeepers Archive
2500 Club Member
I'm one of those people that believes almost every species can be kept successfully with the right conditions, though for certain species the vast majority of hobbyists are unable to meet their needs. Take garden eels or splitfin flashlight fish, while near impossible to keep under most circumstances, under the right conditions, a species specific tank built around them, they can thrive. Though more challenging species with a high fatality rate should definitely be less common in the hobby, to protect those fish against impulse buys and inexperienced/unprepared hobbyists and LFS. One being moorish Idols, they need a very specific and strict diet, which, while very difficult, can be met in captivity, but 99% of reefkeepers can't meet those requirements.I’m sure I’m not the only one who has noticed that every so often we see some fish that are questionable. Whether it’s online, in an LFS or even in someone else’s tank.
So, are there fish that you see kept or imported into the hobby that you think shouldn’t be available?
And if there are, what could good alternatives be?
ScurvyFrog
Community Member
Basically - my thought was fighting/aggressive behavior potentially leads to injury/stress and increased mortality.
Agreed on the clowns!
Anemone_Fanatic
Valuable Member
If I needed to pick one? Any of the corallivore butterflyfish. There's just no way to feed them. Pity too, they're very nice looking, if they were even remotely possible to keep I'd have a bunch. Someday, maybe I'll set up a 600 gallon tank, fill it with green slimer and other fast growing acropora and give them time to grow out. Perhaps it would be possible to have a self-sustaining food supply for them in such a tank, though I imagine that you'd need to measure calcium dosage by the litre.
(None of the pics are mine)
(None of the pics are mine)
00W
2500 Club Member
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I believe that no matter what fish I say someone will chime in with "I kept that fish for 107 years in a 3 gallon tank " so it really, I guess is subjective not only to the fish but also the fish keeper.
I honestly also believe there are fish that should not be sold or kept in this hobby.
This hobby is a lot like having kids.
You need no license for having kids nor one for reef keeping although, in both cases, might be nice.
With vendors still using cyanide randomly it also doesn't help but I think as a group we can help others, especially newbies on what fish should be avoided.
My 2 cents.
I honestly also believe there are fish that should not be sold or kept in this hobby.
This hobby is a lot like having kids.
You need no license for having kids nor one for reef keeping although, in both cases, might be nice.
With vendors still using cyanide randomly it also doesn't help but I think as a group we can help others, especially newbies on what fish should be avoided.
My 2 cents.
Anemone_Fanatic
Valuable Member
I don't like getting involved in this sort of debate, but that's not quite right. Only a handful of species are captive bred, and those which are usually are of lower quality. Anyone who think captive breeding is nicer to the fish is also very wrong, collection and shipping will be equally as stressful either way. What's the difference between chasing fish around with a net in a plastic tub and chasing them around with a net on the reef? Not much from the fish's perspective.
And I will now be following your tank, because I love garden eels!
Unless you have a temperate tank.... Same with Catalina goby
Gtinnel
10K Club member
I agree that any fish should be available to someone who has the setup to properly care for it, but it bugs me that a store near me regularly sells tiny panther groupers. They’re adorable when just a few inches long, but I guarantee that almost all of the people who buy these tiny groupers do not have a tank suitable to take care of a 2 foot long fish.
I have the same feeling with some of the larger tangs that we see for sale in the hobby like the vlamingi for example.
I have the same feeling with some of the larger tangs that we see for sale in the hobby like the vlamingi for example.
Lbrdsoxfan
5000 Club Member
Reminds me of the same, had one of those pigs, they get big quick!
GlassMunky
2500 Club Member
Captive bread has absolutely NOTHING to do with “being nicer” as you put it.
Nobody is worried about the stress of catching the fish in its tank before shipping. That’s just a nonissue and silly to bring up.
Captive breeding is about lowering or eliminating the pressures on wild populations.
Anemone_Fanatic
Valuable Member
What pressure? I'd like to see a conclusive study that commercial aquarium collection reduces the populations of reef fish (aside from endangered species like bangaii). Given the sheer quantities of reef fish, I find it hard to imagine that any significant damage can be done by fishing. They aren't like tuna or salmon, which have a population small enough that they can be overcollected to a significant degree. I'm a conservationist, but I simply can't imagine that any amount of collection can put even a slight dent in the reef fish population given the sheer mass of small benthic fish there are in the ocean.
I suggest going out snorkeling on a reef. Count how many fish are in a square meter, including small and benthic species, there will probably be dozens on a healthy reef, This study counted 10 - 20, so we'll go with that. This figure is also likely to exclude larger species like tangs and rabbitfish, as they'll probably just swim away from the researchers, making accurate counting impossible.
science.aav3384
Now imagine how many square meters of reef there are in the world (by my calculations, that's about 284,300,000,000). Let's take the lowest population figure of 10 fish/square meter, as some reefs in the Caribbean and deeper reefs will have a lower density. That gives us a population of small reef fish numbering about 2,843,000,000,000, or about 2 trillion.
Now, how many fish are collected yearly? This site gives the number at between 18 - 30 million.
R2A - The Collector
Let's give the number at about 25 million (25,000,000), that's what several other studies have given. Now if we do some math, we find that every year, roughly 0.00000879352% of the reef fish population is collected yearly. That's less than a millionth of the total population. To visualize that, take a 100lb bag of rice, and take out a single grain every year. Then consider that the fish population will likely replenish during that year, and you'll see the absurdity of the idea that overfishing causes meaningful damage to reef fish populations.
The real threat to reef fish populations comes in the form of industrial pollution and the spread of invasive species like lionfish. Our hobby has a minimal impact on reef fish populations, that's just an objective statistic. I don't have a problem with captive bred fish, in fact I have several in my tank. But the idea that captive breeding has a meaningful impact on reducing overfishing is frankly ridiculous. The best way to try and help conservation in this hobby is probably by trying to reduce your tank's energy usage or not buying free-growing corals like scolys and trachys, not by avoiding wild fish. The only real advantage that the captive bred fish have is that they're typically already eating.
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