For all the China box haters out there. You might want to see this.

cb684 · Mar 31, 2016

(Oh, ok I finally got it. So everybody that buys cheaper stuff are smarter than who buys more expensive equipment. I am a little slow...)
Edited: Sorry, peace! Too much caffeine.

bobman · Mar 31, 2016

Your welcome by the way was just seeing a made in China in your fixture but no where does it say made in Germany. Either I was not trying to toss your company under the bus although it did kind of go that way.

bobman · Mar 31, 2016

Any way I am going to try to pull this back to my original point. I was not in anyway stating ATI make crap simply put they make a good fixture. My point is that if most of the stuff in these fixtures (ATI and others LEDS T5 whatever) are mostly made in china and a few screws are tightened here and there in Germany and the USA cant that really justify an extra $1000 price tag? When you can get the same fixture for less than a fraction of the cost.

Aussie paul · Mar 31, 2016

N

ATI North America said:
Folks I am not sure what all the chatter is about, ATI Fixtures are still made in Germany... Are some of the components sourced from other countries? Of course. Has anything changed with your beloved ATI (as the OP put it, thanks by the way) no, its made from the same stuff it has always been made from.

No body is putting crap on your fixtures it's about people not trusting lights made in China. Its just proving that even the top brands use parts made in china in there fixtures

Sabellafella · Mar 31, 2016

Aussie paul said:
N

No body is putting crap on your fixtures it's about people not trusting lights made in China. Its just proving that even the top brands use parts made in china in there fixtures

Every brand wether its expensive or not uses parts made from china so i have no idea were this thread is heading

KlynnUK · Mar 31, 2016

There's lot of stuff,, more then most of us here in forum know that are made in China are good.

Price vs performance depends on what you choose to pay or source in my opinion.

ATI in other hand is a decent brand/name/label/equipment. I still buy there product i.e. hybrid if i had cash spare to giveaway...lol/....

gcarroll · Mar 31, 2016

bobman said:
I was not trying to toss your company under the bus although it did kind of go that way.

IMO, that is a flat out lie. You said what you said so man up! No backpedaling.

bobman · Mar 31, 2016

gcarroll said:
IMO, that is a flat out lie. You said what you said so man up! No backpedaling.

Then go back a quote 1 thing I stated bad about them. What that there stuff is probably made in China well it says so in the fixture and don't say made in Germany. Only reason they were even mentioned is because it was found in the fixture built by them if it had been a different company I would have mentioned them. My point was about is there and other companies quality truly better than the stuff coming out of china for far less cost. When the stuff in these fixtures are coming from the same place? That's it nothing more but it got off track. But I will just leave it as what it is. I have my opinions but I should obviously keep them to myself

gcarroll · Mar 31, 2016

bobman said:
Then go back a quote 1 thing I stated bad about them. What that there stuff is probably made in China well it says so in the fixture and don't say made in Germany. Only reason they were even mentioned is because it was found in the fixture built by them if it had been a different company I would have mentioned them. My point was about is there and other companies quality truly better than the stuff coming out of china for far less cost. When the stuff in these fixtures are coming from the same place? That's it nothing more but it got off track. But I will just leave it as what it is. I have my opinions but I should obviously keep them to myself

When you are in a hole, it's best to stop digging! Trust me on this one.

bobman · Mar 31, 2016

Okay what ever. I am not in a hole I have not spent a bizzilion bucks on a fixture. Nor will I ever I just wanted to start up a conversation about is stuff from China really that bad but I guess that's not going to happen. But I will go on the record and say if a company don't want people to assume there products are made in china but in Germany then maybe (and call me crazy if you want) have made in Germany on or in the fixture not made in China. But that's just me I guess. I will leave my thread alone as it obviously did not go the direction I intended. So good luck with you alls $1000+ dollar fixtures that you probably could have got for $300-$400.

DED65 · Mar 31, 2016

I believe that most goods we buy are made in China. I would rather buy American products, but this proves to be quite difficult. Most manufacturers have items built in China to save costs, but these are still built to the manufacturers specifications. Just because it's made in China, it doesn't mean the quality is not there.

jackson6745 · Mar 31, 2016

ATI T5 fixtures are not $1k. Which T5 fixture would you think is a better purchase for the performance? I'm not aware of a better performing T5 fixture for the money.

McMullen · Mar 31, 2016

Black box LED units do still have a stigma around them. However, just as LED tech has improved, so has the "black box" units. Even among many LED users the black box units are the black sheep.

If anything, the OP is pointing out even top of the line equipment is "made in China." It's not just the aquarium hobby, rather most products now come down the same assembly line, get a slightly different outer shell, and a different company name/brand.

bobman · Mar 31, 2016

Thank you that is what I was trying to start a discussion on was more everything we get in some way comes from china. So is it viable to say that some of these high priced fixtures are no longer worth the price and the same thing is coming out with a different shell for a fraction of the price. I have always heard not to buy from china as the quality is poor but if that's the case that same quality is in most of our high end products as well. Just looking for opinion.

To Jackson6745 as far as t5 ATI is at the top even as far as I know. Now in term of performance for the money I have my doubts. When it comes to t5 its all about cooling and reflectors. A ballast imo is not that important as long as it works and drives the bulbs to there peak performance. Most if not all electronic ballasts will do just that. So I would assume but not to familiar with t5 that they are better bang for you buck. I know the led world there is some nice fixtures out there with all these bells and whistles and have the price tag to prove it but in the end coral don't care about the bells and whistles and cheaper alternatives are hitting the market everyday.

Bpb · Mar 31, 2016

Electrical components are often made in Asian countries. It's a fair generalization based on observation. I opened up my vortech mp40 dry side as well as the controller at one point and saw made in Taiwan stickers everywhere. Kessil lights are owned by an American company, but their lights clearly state made in Taiwan. While the high end gear is designed and engineered Germany, Italy, or the us, it's still made largely of cheaply outsourced materials.

Bpb · Mar 31, 2016

That being said. Regardless of where somethings internal circuits are made or their metal housings are stamped out, the fact remains that ati has the whole package regarding design and performance. The reflectors and cooling just flat out work better than cheaper alternatives and the data is all out there.

The Cree and Philips diodes in the higher end led fixtures typically last longer on average in higher end fixtures. They don't burn out and dim down as fast as a lot of the bridgelux fixtures do. Primarily due to heat sink and cooling design. Not what country they're fabricated in. You pay for the engineering mostly

sawdonkey · Mar 31, 2016

bobman said:
I know the led world there is some nice fixtures out there with all these bells and whistles and have the price tag to prove it but in the end coral don't care about the bells and whistles and cheaper alternatives are hitting the market everyday.

Corals might not care about bells and whistles, but some people do. Maybe you don't want to pay for the lighting storm effect, but some people do (not me). Some people just like to have a slick looking t5 fixture, and some people are cool with buying a fan separately and pointing at the fixture. Some people just want a car that goes from A to B. Some people want to dive a luxury car. Who cares.

By the way, I'm a happy long-term black box user.

Bpb · Apr 1, 2016

While my comments also sound biased one way I am a current tunze & eheim user, former vortech, former jebao user. Current black box and buildmyled (both high and low end there), former t5ho user, with aspirations to return back to t5ho. I just liked my tank better under t5ho. Well worth the maintenance cost of bulb replacements to me

nex64 · Apr 1, 2016

Let's no bash bob for bringing certain facts to our attention. He has only presented the facts and has let us deliberate....

shred5 · Apr 1, 2016

bobman said:
Your welcome by the way was just seeing a made in China in your fixture but no where does it say made in Germany. Either I was not trying to toss your company under the bus although it did kind of go that way.

How do you know? You said the picture was sent you by someone you know?

I agree with Greg.