For those that don't quarantine fish or corals.....mitigation?

[Mastiffsrule]

I have never QT’d. The way I mitigate the risk is thru quality of water, a rock scape that gives plenty of room and hiding to reduces stress, and feeding.. my food is 75% black worms, clams, nori, other fresh/frozen food, and 2 or 3 times week Nori gets soaked in zelcon or selcon alternatively.

By having a fish in a healthy, low stress environment with plenty of the correct foods they are more equipped to fight off invaders. I admit I lost a few about 6 or 7 years ago to velvet, but the others that survived, due in part to their health I think, are now at least 10 or 11. (I know this is being debated now, so I am saying for my tank)

If a new fish does bring in something then only that new fish has issues. Another way to mitigate, never add another fish.

 

[SMB]

I observe new fish in a QT tank but don't treat unless there is something wrong with the fish during the observation. My QT tank is a 45 cube with lots of PVC for hiding and subdued light. My goal is to get the fish to take several different food offerings and to be an aggressive eater. Finicky fish I try and train to spot feed. Most fish are underweight from shipping and their stay at the source store. Putting them directly in a display tank is hardly less stressful than QT. You read all the time in the forums "my wrasse has been buried for five days", "my centropyge angle won't come out from hiding and isn't eating", etc. Any new fish placed in a display tank will get some aggression, need to find its territory and have to learn the food routine. So there is always stress on a new fish.
QT allows a fish to settle in, try new foods without competition and generally recover quietly from being transported half around the globe. When I do my weekly WC, some water from the DT will go into the QT so the fish is getting acclimated to its eventual home.
I generally see QT fish gaining weight/filling out so that they have good fat stores if they go off their routine when they get transferred to the display. Usually however, the new fish is out feeding in the display the same day it is transferred.

 

[Kmsutows]

I never QTd and thought I always picked healthy fish from reputable places until I got ich that killed half my tank. I then added a 57watt UV to my 150gal display and needless to say I have since added a mustard tang, powder blue tang and Achilles tang. All doing well thanks to the UV. 3 fish well known to be ich-magnets in a tank that had/has ich. I swear by UVs and it's for good reason they have been proven for decades. Buy big enough and set it up right and you're golden. Needless to say I dont ask for trouble either I still buy healthiest fish I can find. I also believe a key part is a healthy diet and many feedings a day of frozen/fresh foods.

 

[Kmsutows]

When I first got my tank, I asked about QT and the person at the lfs who was answering my questions said that ich is everywhere and there is nothing you can do to prevent it. He said only the wealthy are able to support a quality qt system, so the best I could do is make certain the water and nutrition is healthy in my tank and I shouldn't have a problem with it. Of course being new, I believed anyone with the slightest more experience than myself. Especially who worked in a fish store. And in many ways, much of what he is said is correct. I even bought a UV sterilizer. My established fish look perfect -- but I've still been battling ich ever since. Now I'm not quite ready to take apart my 210 and have it go fallow (yet). But here is my answer to Rev's question: I do quarantine -- just not the same way. I have a 20L (actually two) and I place the new fish in there. I treat for flukes, internal parasites, and watch for bacterial infections. I won't treat with copper unless I think there is a chance of velvet. The fish swim around, are happy and healthy in my qt tank, then after a few weeks, I put them in my display tank -- which, as you can guess, they generally pick up ich relatively quickly. The symptoms don't last too long and eventually they get through it and are soon swimming around the tank as happy and healthy as the others. However...I recently placed my two new tangs into the display tank. My yellow tang is doing great. My goldrim is covered in ich. I'm typing this on THE EXACT SAME DAY that I read @4FordFamily 's article about how acanthurus tangs don't do well with ich and chances of survival are grim. (Good read, btw.)My fingers are crossed that my new goldrim makes it through -- he's eating at least. But I'm not hopeful. I love that tang. I recently had an established coral beauty die of something -- I don't know what. It wasn't ich. But that parasite got through too. On a side note -- I dip every coral, but I do not qt them.

What size UV and flow do you have on it? My 57watt on a 150gal tank allowed me to add 3 acanthurus tangs after going through ich

 

[VR28man]

I dont QT or dip anything but the vast majority of my corals came from a couple trusted locals. I just toss the fish in but haven't added any in over a year now.

YOU DIDN’T TELL ME THAT WHEN I GOT THAT RED PLANET!!!!!!!


Seriously, I buy few frags, and when I do it is from people i trust or who have well run facilities. (e.g. @PacificEastAquaculture , or at an lfs i trust, or from club members like @madweazl who run a tight tank)

If i had space for a qt in our small apartment, i would isolate and observe until the fish ate well. I do dip corals, but did not when I got the red planet and red dragon from @madweazel because his colonies were awesome in the first place.

To mitigate some worries, i do the @Paul B thing and feed my fish healthy (LRS reef frenzy mostly, and soon bbs).

I feel algae and the like are inevitable, and think/hope that most algae phases have mostly run their course.

I do keep peppermint shrimp; i have not seen any aiptasia yet.

[edited for clarity, sorry @madweazl ]

 

[Hermie]

I know this isn't the purpose of the thread, but to respond to some of the other comments...
I honestly cannot understand how a fish doesn't "make it through QT" ?

If a fish is healthy going into QT, then why would it get sick? The only reasons I can think of,

• the QT tank is not cycled properly and the fish dies from ammonia poisoning
• the fish was already lethally sick before it went into QT
• the medication for the fish's illness was not done fast enough

Otherwise... it's a fish in a FOWLR basically. What can go wrong? Nothing in except the points I laid out above, IMO.
Putting a fish in an UNCYCLED tank just because someone wants to QT is a worse option than not QTing them at all, IMO.
QT tanks' biological filtration need to be properly maintained in order for new fish to be in a healthy environment while a resident...

 

[Fiesty]

I had a couple tangs die from ich over a year ago in my display tank. I decided on the management route. I got an oversized UV (40 watt Pentair for 100 gallon), started supplementing selcon with all my food, nori daily for my tangs and made my own food using clams, mussels, fish eggs, fish, squid etc......havent had a fish die of disease since. Ive had a couple of tangs for over a year now, healthy and eating very well. Maybe ive been lucky but its working so far.

U got it figured out!

 

[Rabidwolf]

I didn't have a QT tank when I first started.
My LFS is really good as the QT all fish before putting on sale so I've only ever had healthy fish from them.

Been stung twice with Coral though, brought in Aiptaisia and Bryopsis from frags I bought locally and online.

In the process of getting a new main, so also setting up a nano for my clowns which will also double up as QT when needed.

 

[Dan I]

Not super knowledgeable as some here, but I do not quarantine. I did when I first started and it was just a hassle for me and I'd rather take the risk. What helps a lot is buying from a trusted and great LFS.

The LFS I buy from labels arrival dates on the tank and will sometimes hold the fish for me if I wanted a certain fish. Gives the fish time to fatten up and then I scoop them. I put them in after temp acclimation.

What I think helps me is that I only put in 1 fish every month or two instead of multiple once. I also feed LRS daily, which is the best food in my opinion. In addition, I add Selcon to their meals occasionally.

On the other hand, I have lost several fish due to disease and mishandling. I was real handsy with my tank and always adjusting rockwork etc. Not quarantining is a high risk, but not everyone has the time or money for a hospital tank. If you're going the route of not quarantine I would advise to take it slow on fish stocking, feed healthy food such as LRS, and try to avoid stressing your fish, and pick out quality fish from a trusted LFS.

 

[AquaLifeStudio]

Everything wet gets Quarantined, no matter what. I've got at least 4 tanks to help accomplish this with my Fluval Evo 13 acting as my coral QT. This reminds me that I need to build an army of snails for my display tank so I'll need to first add like 40 of them to my Red Sea Reefer 170 and complete a fallow period of 80 days.

All my fish are treated with Copper for 14 days at the very least before being transported to a bucket and then the display.

 

[Viking_Reefing]

Anyone that remotely pays attention to the boards can see the devastation that lack of quarantine can wreak on a system. There are a few people that are able to effectively manage diseases in their tanks, but for the vast majority of hobbyists a disease will tear through our captive systems and.

Except this isn’t true, or rather it isn’t true if you look through for example Swedish boards. Very rarely do you see posts about diseases nuking a tank even though QTs isn’t the norm around here.

I personally believe that some of this is rooted in the different prevailing philosophy’s, where in the US it’s the norm to start with dead rock/sand and bacteria in a bottle where Swedes/Europeans prefer to start of with live rock, giving the tank much more biodiversity. I myself started my current tank with dead marco rock and pulled the plug on that crap after seeing first hand how much of a difference it made in biodiversity and overall stability.

I personally never QT (well, I did for a while and didn’t like it) and I’ve never had any major issues with disease in over 15 years (except for a few months when I tried starting sterile).
I negate risks by picking out quality live stock, keeping good parameters, sensible stocking, good nutrition and limit stress. It has worked well so far and never had a problem, not even with ich magnets such as acanthurus tangs.
Recently I added a regal angel that came from a ich free tank and sure enough it developed some spots after a couple of days but that went away almost instantly.

Now, this is mostly regarding ich and I’m lucky enough to never have encountered velvet in my own tanks. I’ve seen it ravage store tanks when I worked in my LFS in high school, not a pretty sight and it’s a definite worry.

Just my two cents. Or ören as we say around my parts [emoji1]

 

[CNDReef]

In 15 years I’ve never QT anything. Have I lost fish? Yes, to disease, jumping,power outages and old age. Never wiped out a tank though and I think it has a lot to do with feeding, stocking levels and I have almost always ran ozone.

 

[Lasse]

My refugium have a lot of hiding space and produce a lot of pods. I have a DT of 300 litre and more than 40 fish. Total overgrown by corals. I have 5 wrasse - all of them bulling experts. All my carefully picked newcomers will be placed in the refugium for 1 to 2 weeks. After that I introduce them into the DT. After deciding to do in this way - never losing a new fish when it is introduced into the DT. Did that before because of stress induced by bulling.

I think I cover two things here. My newcomers will be slowly adapded to my microfauna without any other stress and (now some experts will laugh and ask for prove) my newcomers will get the same smell as my old fishes. I strongly believe that smell is an important reconnaising factor in closed system. Prove - none more than 30 years experience with aggressive African cichlids. When I needed to put a new fish in an existing breeding group - I always put the newcomers in a new tank - out of sight from the old fishes. During a couple of weeks I gradually did larger and larger WC with help of DT water. After this - the introduction was rather smooth.

If I would start QT now - it will only be observation QT in a DT like tank and gradual WC with help of DT water. This will give a natural vaccination too. I am strongly against chemical prophylactic treatment with compounds that we do not know anything about how it will affect fish in the long run. If there is an indication of a disease (now I mean an medical indication) - treat with a proper medication. IMO - the use of chemical warfare with help of a cocktail of different human medicines without any indication have nothing with care for the animals to do. Not at all.

Another question - can you say that something is an expert fish because it is sensitive for some diseases? I have more qualification demands than that before I judge a fish as expert level fish. And should the expert levels fish methods been seen as the only methods in order to care for all types of fish?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[SMB]

I know this isn't the purpose of the thread, but to respond to some of the other comments...
I honestly cannot understand how a fish doesn't "make it through QT" ?

If a fish is healthy going into QT, then why would it get sick? The only reasons I can think of,

• the QT tank is not cycled properly and the fish dies from ammonia poisoning
• the fish was already lethally sick before it went into QT
• the medication for the fish's illness was not done fast enough

Otherwise... it's a fish in a FOWLR basically. What can go wrong? Nothing in except the points I laid out above, IMO.
Putting a fish in an UNCYCLED tank just because someone wants to QT is a worse option than not QTing them at all, IMO.
QT tanks' biological filtration need to be properly maintained in order for new fish to be in a healthy environment while a resident...

You left out death from over medication.
Also biological filtration is not that key as QT should be bare bottom and frequent WC can always keep numbers stable.

 

[madweazl]

YOU DIDN’T TELL ME THAT WHEN I GOT THAT RED PLANET!!!!!!!

Hmm, had a realized giving a small colony away would get me called out on the forum, I wouldn't have done it. You're welcome...

 

[DSC reef]

Never quarantined anything since starting in the hobby. Very selective when buying fish and a varied quality diet has worked very well for many years.

 

[bluprntguy]

Except this isn’t true, or rather it isn’t true if you look through for example Swedish boards. Very rarely do you see posts about diseases nuking a tank even though QTs isn’t the norm around here.

I personally believe that some of this is rooted in the different prevailing philosophy’s, where in the US it’s the norm to start with dead rock/sand and bacteria in a bottle where Swedes/Europeans prefer to start of with live rock, giving the tank much more biodiversity. I myself started my current tank with dead marco rock and pulled the plug on that crap after seeing first hand how much of a difference it made in biodiversity and overall stability.

I personally never QT (well, I did for a while and didn’t like it) and I’ve never had any major issues with disease in over 15 years (except for a few months when I tried starting sterile).
I negate risks by picking out quality live stock, keeping good parameters, sensible stocking, good nutrition and limit stress. It has worked well so far and never had a problem, not even with ich magnets such as acanthurus tangs.
Recently I added a regal angel that came from a ich free tank and sure enough it developed some spots after a couple of days but that went away almost instantly.

Now, this is mostly regarding ich and I’m lucky enough to never have encountered velvet in my own tanks. I’ve seen it ravage store tanks when I worked in my LFS in high school, not a pretty sight and it’s a definite worry.

Just my two cents. Or ören as we say around my parts [emoji1]

Except your comment isn’t really true and it’s easy to verify:

1. There are many people from Europe that use this board (or similar “American” boards) having the same problems.
2. In a world of google translate, it’s relatively easy to find a board in another country and see that the disease forum there has similar problems and the same discussions. Many people in Sweden practice quarantine and prophylactic treatment.

And, FWIW, My previous tank started with live rock yanked from the ocean and live sand. That doesn’t prevent ich from ravaging a tank. I’m 100% sure about that and so are the fish that died in that outbreak.

I did stop in a LFS on my last stop in Portugal. It wasn’t anything like our stores here. All the fish were in separate tanks, with separate filtration, and separate nets hanging on each tank. He had a huge room in the back where he quarantined and treated new arrivals. It was immaculate and clean. All the fish were over 50 euro. That’s substantially different from our system where all the fish are held in the same infected system and the goal is to sell the fish for $15 before they show symptoms of the disease they certainly already have. So from that perspective, it probably is more likely that you’ll have better success in Europe even if you don’t bother to quarantine.

 

[VR28man]

Hmm, had a realized giving a small colony away would get me called out on the forum, I wouldn't have done it. You're welcome...

My deep apologies, I was kidding, @madweazl, though looking at it I should have added a smiley face and been a bit more explicit (it was late at night....is my excuse....). In fact, as I recall, our processes and thoughts on this are very similar.

Post edited. The coral was doing very well as of when I left for a brief trip a few days ago, and I thank you very much for it. This was a dream piece for me.

That being said, this is a good venue to answer the tangent of "how do I find trusted local reefers?" since I meant to imply that @madweazl was one of them. And because not only myself, but also IIRC several other posters in this thread say as much.

Obviously, interacting in your local reefing club, or with other locals on R2R is the most important way. Of course, someone's posts should be informative, lead you to trust what they are saying. (@madweazl posts frequently and knowledgeably enough that they speak for themselves; I did look at the tank's build thread before getting the coral, though). And their philosophy should be synced with yours; if I were one of the pestaphobic reefers, no matter how good someone's tank is, if they had aquacultured or wild live rock I might not take one of their frags.

Ultimately, I find that having a local and global community with good knowledge, that shares its advice, build threads, etc. to be critical support, especially for a beginning reefer. My time in reefing would have been impossible without R2R and RC interaction, and is far easier and richer interacting with local reefers like @madweazl .

 

[VR28man]

I did stop in a LFS on my last stop in Portugal. It wasn’t anything like our stores here. All the fish were in separate tanks, with separate filtration, and separate nets hanging on each tank. He had a huge room in the back where he quarantined and treated new arrivals. It was immaculate and clean. All the fish were over 50 euro.

As an American, I'm up with that, and probably would pay more if the LFS took care that the fish was net-caught and had a rational process to arrive that didn't cause a lot of unnecessary deaths. Even a huge tank should be stocked slowly, IMO and slowly getting good speciemens is waaay better than getting large bursts of cheap ones. (the latter does sound like a good way to get diseases on your tank, since you can assume there was no care for the fish and that shipping was probably haphazard......)

 

[Paul Sands]

Except this isn’t true, or rather it isn’t true if you look through for example Swedish boards. Very rarely do you see posts about diseases nuking a tank even though QTs isn’t the norm around here.

I personally believe that some of this is rooted in the different prevailing philosophy’s, where in the US it’s the norm to start with dead rock/sand and bacteria in a bottle where Swedes/Europeans prefer to start of with live rock, giving the tank much more biodiversity. I myself started my current tank with dead marco rock and pulled the plug on that crap after seeing first hand how much of a difference it made in biodiversity and overall stability.

I personally never QT (well, I did for a while and didn’t like it) and I’ve never had any major issues with disease in over 15 years (except for a few months when I tried starting sterile).
I negate risks by picking out quality live stock, keeping good parameters, sensible stocking, good nutrition and limit stress. It has worked well so far and never had a problem, not even with ich magnets such as acanthurus tangs.
Recently I added a regal angel that came from a ich free tank and sure enough it developed some spots after a couple of days but that went away almost instantly.

Now, this is mostly regarding ich and I’m lucky enough to never have encountered velvet in my own tanks. I’ve seen it ravage store tanks when I worked in my LFS in high school, not a pretty sight and it’s a definite worry.

Just my two cents. Or ören as we say around my parts [emoji1]

Except this is the exact opposite of my experience. I’ve lived in europe and had a reef tank while there. Most reefers quarantine and treat RELIGIOUSLY. From what I saw, almost everyone treated their new arrivals prophylactically.

There isn’t some magical system to keep sick fish alive. If you lock 20 humans in 1200 SF apartment without windows or ventilation and then give one of them Ebola, there is no amount of “healthy” food that is going to keep them all from getting Ebola and dying.

For profit aquaculture facilities have worked to eradicate “killer” diseases and have strict bio controls to prevent them from entering their systems. They do that for a reason. It works.