Frozen vs. Pellet Foods

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Genuine question: fish and many marine animals can’t synthesize DHA and EPA which are essential for them. Those are usually not present in pellets because of their poor preservability. So I wonder how do fish that only eat pellet not get health issues?

It is not correct that such materials are entirely missing from dry foods. For example, BRS pellets lists an exact analysis:

• Omega-3 HUFA's: 25.0 mg/g
• EPA: 10mg/g
• DHA: 9mg/g

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/prem...rtypt7s4GaOf7-KhtwGIHkMMlVrlKh3eCzydktsgH2MU2

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

They do, that is why we have disease forums.

Another opinion lacking substantiation.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It is not correct that such materials are entirely missing from dry foods. For example, BRS pellets lists an exact analysis:

• Omega-3 HUFA's: 25.0 mg/g
• EPA: 10mg/g
• DHA: 9mg/g

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/prem...rtypt7s4GaOf7-KhtwGIHkMMlVrlKh3eCzydktsgH2MU2

Let's see how that compares to fresh clams, so we swing this back to reality.


Here's an analysis of one species of fresh clams. I doubt this is the species Paul uses, but clams are a favorite of his to recommend as a fish food.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/fsn3.70933

From table 1:

DHA + EPA: 12.3 to 20.8 % of total fat

let's assume 15% for an average.

Fat is ~1.2 g/100 g wet weight.

Thus, DHA + EPA is 0.15 x 1.2 g/100 g wet weight = 0.18 g/100 g wet weight or 180 mg/100g wet weight or 1.8 mg/g wet weight.

That number will rise if one corrects for the moisture in clams (dry food has much less).

The moisture level in the species of clam in table 1 is about 85%, so the values must be multiplied up by about 6.6 to get mg/g dry weight, and that brings the total to

DHA + EPA = 12 mg/g

That is NOT higher than the BRS pellets

 

[oakcityreefer]

All my fish came from #Dr.Reef and wont eat pellets. I don't know if that's due to what he feeds or if I just have picky fish. I wish they would since its less expensive and nutrient dense. I feed frozen by hand twice a day and freeze dried from a feeder once a day.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

All my fish came from #Dr.Reef and wont eat pellets. I don't know if that's due to what he feeds or if I just have picky fish. I wish they would since its less expensive and nutrient dense. I feed frozen by hand twice a day and freeze dried from a feeder once a day.

What kind of fish? Have you tried TDO chromoboost? All my fish came from the same place and all (except the mandarin pair, probably) eat those pellets (ocellaris clowns, Carberryi anthias, green chromis, azure damsels, yellow tang and one spot foxface).

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I mostly feed frozen but occasionally make a point to feed pellets. They are specially formulated for the fishes health, so I think of it as like a multi vitamin.

 

[oakcityreefer]

What kind of fish? Have you tried TDO chromoboost? All my fish came from the same place and all (except the mandarin pair, probably) eat those pellets (ocellaris clowns, Carberryi anthias, green chromis, azure damsels, yellow tang and one spot foxface).

4 ocellaris clowns 2 of them will eat TDO pellets, hippo tang, bristle tooth tang, copperband, and a banggai cardinal. Also a yellow watchman goby and tiger pistol shrimp but those two will eat anything that gets close to their cave. I tried TDO Chromoboost and Vitalis but they just watch it float right past them.

 

[fishface NJ]

All my fish came from #Dr.Reef and wont eat pellets. I don't know if that's due to what he feeds or if I just have picky fish. I wish they would since its less expensive and nutrient dense. I feed frozen by hand twice a day and freeze dried from a feeder once a day.

Try this. Available on amazon

 

[BriDroid]

Try this. Available on amazon

Are these hard and dry or are they soft and spongy? The soft and spongy ones get stuck in my auto feeder, which is why I went with the NLS since they are hard as little rocks.

 

[fishface NJ]

hard and dry... 1.5mm size for my fish

I have 5 wrasses, 1 midas blenny, 1 firefish, and 1 royal angel that was purchased from Dr Reef

I had tried PE Pellets in two different sizes. They would taste one pellet and not eat go after other. Same experience with TDO Chromoboost. I was recommended Ultra Fresh from members here. The fish eat it until there is nothing left.

​

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

4 ocellaris clowns 2 of them will eat TDO pellets, hippo tang, bristle tooth tang, copperband, and a banggai cardinal. Also a yellow watchman goby and tiger pistol shrimp but those two will eat anything that gets close to their cave. I tried TDO Chromoboost and Vitalis but they just watch it float right past them.

Curious that two clowns eat it and two do not. Hopefully the eaters will teach the noneaters.

 

[jackintheboxfish]

It is not correct that such materials are entirely missing from dry foods. For example, BRS pellets lists an exact analysis:

• Omega-3 HUFA's: 25.0 mg/g
• EPA: 10mg/g
• DHA: 9mg/g

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/prem...rtypt7s4GaOf7-KhtwGIHkMMlVrlKh3eCzydktsgH2MU2

I didn’t know that so thanks for the info Randy :).

The analysis I believe is for the freshly made pellets, but EPA and DHA degrade really fast in room temperature conditions with exposure to air and some moisture. That’s why for human supplements they are in gel capsules vast majority of cases. For the pellets they would likely have mostly degraded before reaching the fish or require preservatives which might also have negative impact for the fish.

I also personally think the pellets are kind of like cereal in the sense that cereal have been fortified with many vitamins as pellets include a lot of different nutrients for the fish. However I wouldn’t really consider only eating different types of cereal is good for my own health. But that’s just my opinion:)

 

[BriDroid]

hard and dry... 1.5mm size for my fish

I have 5 wrasses, 1 midas blenny, 1 firefish, and 1 royal angel that was purchased from Dr Reef

I had tried PE Pellets in two different sizes. They would taste one pellet and not eat go after other. Same experience with TDO Chromoboost. I was recommended Ultra Fresh from members here. The fish eat it until there is nothing left.

​

Thanks, I'll have to try it out next time I need food.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I didn’t know that so thanks for the info Randy :).

The analysis I believe is for the freshly made pellets, but EPA and DHA degrade really fast in room temperature conditions with exposure to air and some moisture. That’s why for human supplements they are in gel capsules vast majority of cases. For the pellets they would likely have mostly degraded before reaching the fish or require preservatives which might also have negative impact for the fish.

I also personally think the pellets are kind of like cereal in the sense that cereal have been fortified with many vitamins as pellets include a lot of different nutrients for the fish. However I wouldn’t really consider only eating different types of cereal is good for my own health. But that’s just my opinion:)

Degradation over time certainly will be true. :)

 

[cwerner]

I used to put a balance of New Life Spectrum pellets and Ocean Nutrition Herbivore pellets in my auto-feeder that went off once in the morning about 30 minutes after the light turned on, and then once at about 2 PM. Then at about 8PM I'll do a feeding of whatever I have in my freezer at the time plus a sheet of Nori. Usually I have Spirulina Mysis or Rods Original Blend.

I'm recently back to saltwater though with a much larger system so I'll have to figure out a new normal. I doubt the schedule will need to change much unless I'm loading up on Chromis and Anthia's, in which case I'd probably increase the frequency of auto-feedings.

 

[keagan]

Let's see how that compares to fresh clams, so we swing this back to reality.


Here's an analysis of one species of fresh clams. I doubt this is the species Paul uses, but clams are a favorite of his to recommend as a fish food.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/fsn3.70933

From table 1:

DHA + EPA: 12.3 to 20.8 % of total fat

let's assume 15% for an average.

Fat is ~1.2 g/100 g wet weight.

Thus, DHA + EPA is 0.15 x 1.2 g/100 g wet weight = 0.18 g/100 g wet weight or 180 mg/100g wet weight or 1.8 mg/g wet weight.

That number will rise if one corrects for the moisture in clams (dry food has much less).

The moisture level in the species of clam in table 1 is about 85%, so the values must be multiplied up by about 6.6 to get mg/g dry weight, and that brings the total to

DHA + EPA = 12 mg/g

That is NOT higher than the BRS pellets

I wonder if both are equally bioavailable? Just thinking of the comparison to human supplements where we pass a fair amount of the supplement. Also there's oxidation in dry food which would still show the same concentration in chemical analysis but oxidized lipids are less nutritionally valuable, some are harmful.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I wonder if both are equally bioavailable? Just thinking of the comparison to human supplements where we pass a fair amount of the supplement. Also there's oxidation in dry food which would still show the same concentration in chemical analysis but oxidized lipids are less nutritionally valuable, some are harmful.

I cannot answer that, or even which product would be worst impacted, but TDO chromoboost recommends storing in the fridge, which I do.

 

[Blitheran]

I feed avast marine reef jerky only. I am too busy and travel a lot so an auto feeder makes it easier for me

 

[christinna77]

My auto feeder goes off in the morning with a mix of around 10 different dry foods, including TDO pellets, flakes, freeze dried foods etc. That's when the fish are hungriest after the night, and sooner or later any new fish usually joins the others, even if it doesn't eat dry food yet.

Then I feed a frozen mix containing LRS, mysis, spirulina brine, plankton, calanus, clams etc. another 3-4 times a day.

This way, when I go on vacation, the fish are already used to eating dry food from the auto feeder. I just adjust it to go off more often and they have no problem eating only that for a week or two.

 

[Paul B]

Another opinion lacking substantiation

And that is also your opinion. I have linked multiple times, scientific articles on how living gut bacteria controls immunity so as I said, that is your opinion that also has no scientific proof.
Just my opinion of course.