Frustrated

[jenfiandra]

I'm not having a very good track record with fish and I'm starting to get very frustrated. I'm a new reefer with a tank seeded with tampa bay live rock and sand. The tank has been set up since February but cycled rather quickly because of the live rock. I have numerous cuc (snails, hermit crabs, tuxedo urchin) and they all seem to thrive. I don't think I've lost any cuc, other than a few of the very tiny hermit crabs. I also have 2 small tiger gobys from the live rock along with numerous hitchhikers including a decorator crab and some mithrax crab (I think). I also have two manits shrimp. I know they are not reef safe and I do plan to get them out at some point. Again, all of these guys have been doing well since February. Many of them have doubled in size. Two weeks ago, I thought I was ready for my first fish. I got two clowns and a PJ cardinal. I actually posted about the cardinal after I brought it home because it didn't look good. He didn't end up making it and died 3 days after I got it. I do think the fish was already sick when I brought it home. All was well with the clown fish so on Saturday I decided to get a firefish goby along with 4 coral frags. The LFS did warn me that they could jump. On Sunday I took the lid off to pull off some algae off the back wall and he jumped. As soon as I noticed I put him back in the water but he didn't make it through the night. Yesterday I noticed one of the clowns acting and swimming differently, breathing heavy and hanging out in the bottom of the tank, not at all what they normally do. The clown looked really bad this morning and when I came home from work this afternoon, I could not find him in the tank. I assume something ate him or he's under a rock where I can't see, although I have looked EVERYWHERE. I think he is defiantly dead. I did not notice any white film or anything on the clown this morning. He was breathing very heavy and he was laying on top of the urchin who was stuck to the wall right near the return when I left this morning. I'm assuming he had Brookynella but I don't know for sure because breathing heavy, acting strange, and loss of appetite were the only symptoms. It's obvious going forward that I will definitely either buy a quarantine/hospital tank or buy already quarantined fish. I've learned that lesson. Since I don't really know what took the one clown and the other clown and the two tiger gobys are the only fish left in the tank I'm just going to wait it out and hope for the best that they don't get sick too because 1. I have an out of town work trip on Thursday so I don't have time to get a quarantine tank and set it up and I can't monitor or feed. My regular tank is automated 2. I don't know what I would treat for if I took them out of the main tank and put in a QT tank since I don't know what the clown had 3. I could never catch the gobys even if I tried. They are pretty small and swim fast and spend 99% of their time hidden in the nooks and crannys of the live rock.


All of my tests show that I'm within range other than magnesium, which is a little low. My nitrate to phosphate ratio has always been off but the numbers by themself are in range.

So...lets say no one else gets sick (fingers crossed) and I wait 3 months to put any more fish in the tank, would I be ok? Or can these diseases just live in the tank or on the fish that never got sick and wait for stress to rear their ugly head and then they kill the fish or any new fish months later? I will not add anymore fish without a 30 day quarantine from here on out but I'm just scared that there is something already in the tank and the tank is essentially ruined. How long should I wait to add any more fish or corals. Thoughts?

​

 

[Uncle99]

The time to get rid of the mantis shrimp is immediately.

If not right this moment, they WILL stalk your fish, beat them up, and drag them under a rock for lunch.

They will not stop until all they can catch, have been consumed.

 

[jenfiandra]

The time to get rid of the mantis shrimp is immediately.

If not right this moment, they WILL stalk your fish, beat them up, and drag them under a rock for lunch.

They will not stop until all they can catch, have been consumed.

These are florida mantis and much smaller than the colorful mantis that are really big. They are only about an inch big. They haven't touched the small tiger gobys. I do know that there have been other people that have tampa bay saltwater live rock and kept their mantis and they only ate some cuc once in awhile. With that being said, I do plan to get them out shortly. I just have to try to figure out a way to catch them.

 

[Uncle99]

These are florida mantis and much smaller than the colorful mantis that are really big. They are only about an inch big. They haven't touched the small tiger gobys. I do know that there have been other people that have tampa bay saltwater live rock and kept their mantis and they only ate some cuc once in awhile. With that being said, I do plan to get them out shortly. I just have to try to figure out a way to catch them.

Mine was the standard green one from live rock and he stalked and killed three rock dwellers before being caught and destroyed, but, was about 3” when found.

First he would stun them. Then he would drag them never to be seen again.

I located his “spot” (in a Candy can coral) pulled that coral and simply netted him. He wasn’t very fast or smart.

Maybe ok right now, but that will change, good idea to remove.

 

[Uncle99]

If fish are healthy, feeding and show no spots for three months, then you should be ok.

I think it’s a good idea to let things settle down for some time. This will build back your confidence.

I can’t tell what killed your fish. Maybe the diease experts can.

The hobby can be frustrating, I understand but that’s the game. You’re putting nature in a glass box.

 

[jenfiandra]

Ouch! Mine was the standard green one from live rock and he stalked and killed three rock dwellers before being caught and destroyed, but, was about 3” when found.

First he would stun them. Then he would drag them never to be seen again.

I located his “spot” (in a Candy can coral) pulled that coral and simply netted him. He wasn’t very fast or smart.

Maybe ok right now, but that will change, good idea to remove.

Mine are in holes in the live rock and one is in the sand under a base rock they only peep out occasionally so I think I have to set a trap. I’m pretty sure they are the ones that got the dead clown. I’ll plan on working on a trap this weekend

 

[Uncle99]

If the trap don’t work, then put a piece of shrimp on a wooden skewer and “lure” him out, pull8ng the shrimp upwards, then net him as he chased it up.

Good luck…..nasty creature.

 

[JTP424]

Deep breaths man!
You'll get where you want to be.
This hobby is ALL about patience and time. As well as understanding that things beyond our control are going to happen.
Apologies I don't have actual advice, just here for moral support!

 

[Evil1]

Ditch the mantis, do a small water change, run some hi quality carbon in your filter to remove any impurities test all parameters if good get a few damsels. Very hardy fish and some are quite beautiful.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I'm not having a very good track record with fish and I'm starting to get very frustrated. I'm a new reefer with a tank seeded with tampa bay live rock and sand. The tank has been set up since February but cycled rather quickly because of the live rock. I have numerous cuc (snails, hermit crabs, tuxedo urchin) and they all seem to thrive. I don't think I've lost any cuc, other than a few of the very tiny hermit crabs. I also have 2 small tiger gobys from the live rock along with numerous hitchhikers including a decorator crab and some mithrax crab (I think). I also have two manits shrimp. I know they are not reef safe and I do plan to get them out at some point. Again, all of these guys have been doing well since February. Many of them have doubled in size. Two weeks ago, I thought I was ready for my first fish. I got two clowns and a PJ cardinal. I actually posted about the cardinal after I brought it home because it didn't look good. He didn't end up making it and died 3 days after I got it. I do think the fish was already sick when I brought it home. All was well with the clown fish so on Saturday I decided to get a firefish goby along with 4 coral frags. The LFS did warn me that they could jump. On Sunday I took the lid off to pull off some algae off the back wall and he jumped. As soon as I noticed I put him back in the water but he didn't make it through the night. Yesterday I noticed one of the clowns acting and swimming differently, breathing heavy and hanging out in the bottom of the tank, not at all what they normally do. The clown looked really bad this morning and when I came home from work this afternoon, I could not find him in the tank. I assume something ate him or he's under a rock where I can't see, although I have looked EVERYWHERE. I think he is defiantly dead. I did not notice any white film or anything on the clown this morning. He was breathing very heavy and he was laying on top of the urchin who was stuck to the wall right near the return when I left this morning. I'm assuming he had Brookynella but I don't know for sure because breathing heavy, acting strange, and loss of appetite were the only symptoms. It's obvious going forward that I will definitely either buy a quarantine/hospital tank or buy already quarantined fish. I've learned that lesson. Since I don't really know what took the one clown and the other clown and the two tiger gobys are the only fish left in the tank I'm just going to wait it out and hope for the best that they don't get sick too because 1. I have an out of town work trip on Thursday so I don't have time to get a quarantine tank and set it up and I can't monitor or feed. My regular tank is automated 2. I don't know what I would treat for if I took them out of the main tank and put in a QT tank since I don't know what the clown had 3. I could never catch the gobys even if I tried. They are pretty small and swim fast and spend 99% of their time hidden in the nooks and crannys of the live rock.


All of my tests show that I'm within range other than magnesium, which is a little low. My nitrate to phosphate ratio has always been off but the numbers by themself are in range.

So...lets say no one else gets sick (fingers crossed) and I wait 3 months to put any more fish in the tank, would I be ok? Or can these diseases just live in the tank or on the fish that never got sick and wait for stress to rear their ugly head and then they kill the fish or any new fish months later? I will not add anymore fish without a 30 day quarantine from here on out but I'm just scared that there is something already in the tank and the tank is essentially ruined. How long should I wait to add any more fish or corals. Thoughts?

​

Mantis should be in a tank by their own and will kill fish and snails. I recommend quarantining clowns for at least 3 weeks and use Ruby Rally pro which addresses many clown issues. For missing clown, check overflow as they often slip within the teeth of overflow.
How are you testing water?
Were the fish found with their mouths open?
Please post a couple pics of your tank using no blue lighting but rather bright white light intensity

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'm not having a very good track record with fish and I'm starting to get very frustrated. I'm a new reefer with a tank seeded with tampa bay live rock and sand. The tank has been set up since February but cycled rather quickly because of the live rock. I have numerous cuc (snails, hermit crabs, tuxedo urchin) and they all seem to thrive. I don't think I've lost any cuc, other than a few of the very tiny hermit crabs. I also have 2 small tiger gobys from the live rock along with numerous hitchhikers including a decorator crab and some mithrax crab (I think). I also have two manits shrimp. I know they are not reef safe and I do plan to get them out at some point. Again, all of these guys have been doing well since February. Many of them have doubled in size. Two weeks ago, I thought I was ready for my first fish. I got two clowns and a PJ cardinal. I actually posted about the cardinal after I brought it home because it didn't look good. He didn't end up making it and died 3 days after I got it. I do think the fish was already sick when I brought it home. All was well with the clown fish so on Saturday I decided to get a firefish goby along with 4 coral frags. The LFS did warn me that they could jump. On Sunday I took the lid off to pull off some algae off the back wall and he jumped. As soon as I noticed I put him back in the water but he didn't make it through the night. Yesterday I noticed one of the clowns acting and swimming differently, breathing heavy and hanging out in the bottom of the tank, not at all what they normally do. The clown looked really bad this morning and when I came home from work this afternoon, I could not find him in the tank. I assume something ate him or he's under a rock where I can't see, although I have looked EVERYWHERE. I think he is defiantly dead. I did not notice any white film or anything on the clown this morning. He was breathing very heavy and he was laying on top of the urchin who was stuck to the wall right near the return when I left this morning. I'm assuming he had Brookynella but I don't know for sure because breathing heavy, acting strange, and loss of appetite were the only symptoms. It's obvious going forward that I will definitely either buy a quarantine/hospital tank or buy already quarantined fish. I've learned that lesson. Since I don't really know what took the one clown and the other clown and the two tiger gobys are the only fish left in the tank I'm just going to wait it out and hope for the best that they don't get sick too because 1. I have an out of town work trip on Thursday so I don't have time to get a quarantine tank and set it up and I can't monitor or feed. My regular tank is automated 2. I don't know what I would treat for if I took them out of the main tank and put in a QT tank since I don't know what the clown had 3. I could never catch the gobys even if I tried. They are pretty small and swim fast and spend 99% of their time hidden in the nooks and crannys of the live rock.


All of my tests show that I'm within range other than magnesium, which is a little low. My nitrate to phosphate ratio has always been off but the numbers by themself are in range.

So...lets say no one else gets sick (fingers crossed) and I wait 3 months to put any more fish in the tank, would I be ok? Or can these diseases just live in the tank or on the fish that never got sick and wait for stress to rear their ugly head and then they kill the fish or any new fish months later? I will not add anymore fish without a 30 day quarantine from here on out but I'm just scared that there is something already in the tank and the tank is essentially ruined. How long should I wait to add any more fish or corals. Thoughts?

​

One important factor in your issues (that you might not know) is were the clownfish you got captive raised or wild caught? The latter are much more prone to diseases, including Brooklynella, although even captive raised clowns can be a problem is housed with wild caught clowns before you buy then.

Generally, for clownfish, waiting 3 months will clear a tank of Brooklynella.