Getting a pair of dwarf angels (not a mated pair): Can it be done safely?

Zionas

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My tank will be a 3-foot tank that’s 36”x24”x24”. That gives me about 85 gallons. I am wondering if it’s possible for me to introduce two Centropyge at the same time (both will be small and around the same suze) and put them in one tank. Will my tank be too small? Will they fight? Is this recommended at all? (If so, for which species?)

What about putting two different species, getting around the same size and introducing them together?
 
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homer1475

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Probably not. I had a 4 foot 75G and 2 pygmy angels did not work. Anythings possible if they are introduced at the same time and roughly the same size though.
 

homer1475

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I tried a flame angel, and a cherub. Ihave also tried a flame and a flameback. I have seen it work, but those were all in 200G + tanks where they had room to swim and not meet each other much.
 

atoll

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I have paired pygmy angles successfully a few times. C.argi and C.acnthrops without any issue and the argis spawned regular for me.
 

atoll

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How big is your tank though? Were they approximately the same size when introduced, and did you introduce them together?
I watched each closely in seperate tanks. I have got an eye over the years for working out which is likely male and which female. I found fir every female there would be 3 or more that looked make to me even in very young fish with C.argi.
Males have a longer body then females with females being shorter and more rounded in the body. I am not talking massively though. Over many years I have successfully paired I think 3 pairs of argois and 2 of Acanthrops this way.
 

atoll

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BTW my tank back then was a 6x2x2. However it's not so much the size IMO but getting the right fish and creating the right environment for them. I am sure I would have been equally successful with say a 4x2x2 perhaps even a 3x2x2 with plenty of rock work and the correct reefscape.
 

OrionN

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Dwarf Angels are protogynous hermaphodites, juveniles to female and then male. Pair them are very easy, just put two together, but with 1 male or less between the two, you will get a pair. Juveniles and females do not fight, other than occasional , non injurious spars so you should be fine in a 85 gal tank.
If you have a larger tank, 120+, even placing two males together, they will fish and one will reverted back to female. Very stressful for them both and chances of one die from this in not insignificant. There is a scientific paper on this published a few years ago.

I know you have been trying to decide which species of dwarf angel to put in your new built. Pairing them is easy, as stated above. Several of the dwarf angel are dimorphic, namely Flame, Coral Beauty and Potter. I have posted and thread on sexing Flame angels including pictures. Sexing CB and Potter is also easy but I don't have as much experiences with these species. Regardless, put two small ones together and you should be good to go.

You just need to decide which species, then get two juveniles is my recommendation.

Correction: I should say that Dwarf Angels are bidirectional hermaphodites.
 
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stevenliu9

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I added Two flames to my 180 separately, but also making sure it was a male and a female. They were just fine. Currently have a flame and a lemon peel in the same tank and they are fine but that’s because I also have larger angel who bosses over them (blueface & emperor). So if you have other larger aggressive fish you might be ok with them fending for themselves together rather than squabble. But your tank size is indeed a bit limited in where they can escape each other if a war breaks out
 
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atoll

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Dwarf Angels are protogynous hermaphodites, juveniles to female and then male. Pair them are very easy, just put two together, but with 1 male or less between the two, you will get a pair. Juveniles and females do not fight, other than occasional , non injurious spars so you should be fine in a 85 gal tank.
If you have a larger tank, 120+, even placing two males together, they will fish and one will reverted back to female. Very stressful for them both and chances of one die from this in not insignificant. There is a scientific paper on this published a few years ago.

I know you have been trying to decide which species of dwarf angel to put in your new built. Pairing them is easy, as stated above. Several of the dwarf angel are dimorphic, namely Flame, Coral Beauty and Potter. I have posted and thread on sexing Flame angels including pictures. Sexing CB and Potter is also easy but I don't have as much experiences with these species. Regardless, put two small ones together and you should be good to go.

You just need to decide which species, then get two juveniles is my recommendation.
Must admit I have never heard of makes reverting to females only the other way round. I have seen small argos that showed signs of being female as mentioned and in the 3 times I have put them together there was no fighting only display. They also spawned fir me regular in the evenings under a single a actinic light.
I once caught the eggs by scooping them from near the surface and took them to a reefing friend who was at university to bring on. He managed to bring a couple through in the late 80s well before it achieved much later. His main food source was copepod lava I believe.
 

windemerejack

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Ive tried numerous different types and all failed except a Flame and a Coral Beauty, they are not the best of friends but they leave each other alone.
 

OrionN

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I should say dwarf angels are bidirectional hemaphodites because they can reverted back to female from male, as oppose to clownfish which are protoandrous hermaphodites. Clownfish change from male to female and cannot revert back to male.
 

zoomonster

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I never had the intent of breeding but I have always kept many dwarfs and pygmies w/o much issue other than some minor aggression. I only have flame, flameback, multicolor and bicolor right now but have kept those plus orange/lemon peel, coral beauty, potters together in a 200g reef. Overall tank is quite peaceful these days. Now there's always exceptions and it can be difficult to add one later but I usually just leave one boxed in a tank for several days to get fully acclimated, eat and be stronger. A weak, timid angel is a dead angel. You also can get a monster like my late coral beauty which flat out killed the one and only golden I ever had. The angels are not alone either. I generally keep tangs, wrasses. clowns and misc. other.
 
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Flame2hawk

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I have a flame and Coral B in my 625g and they still joust from time to time but mostly co exist in harmony.
 

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I had a flame and cb they were file together in a 60. Need lots of rock work as the will need different sleeping areas
 

ThRoewer

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I kept harem groups of C. argi in tanks as small as 100 liters and it worked.

I should say dwarf angels are bidirectional hemaphodites because they can reverted back to female from male, as oppose to clownfish which are protoandrous hermaphodites. Clownfish change from male to female and cannot revert back to male.
Yes:
Sexually dichromatic protogynous angelfish Centropyge ferrugata (Pomacanthidae) males can change back to females

But large angels of the genus Pomacanthus are gonochoric and do not change sex (at least not after transitioning to adult coloration).
 

joseph scott

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Which would be less stressful for the fish, pairing two Juvenal flame angels or three to become a harem? just thinking maybe the one that becomes male splits it’s aggression between two females. Or would this be stressful for the male? Had this problem with anthias in the past, every lyrtail anthias that turned male spent all his energy chasing females until it died, then next strongest fish turned male only have the same fate
 
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