Got saltwater from my LFS. questions.

[fisherc92]

good evening. i setup my first tank a little over 24 hours ago. i have the aquatop refice 40 Gal AIO. i bought my first 40 gallons from my LFS. they gave my 20 Gal fresh saltwater. They also gave me 20 Gal from a tank inside the store. i was told this would speed up my overall cycle and reduce time to get coral into the tank.

First off i forget what they exactly called the tank water. i want to say setted water but i do honestly forget. Secondly what are the benefits of using this water in a new tank. I was told i can add my rock tomorrow (having a aquascape custom built from the shop) as well as my first fish. I have my dr. tims ready as well. Would you suggest this?

Any info on this type of process will be appreciated. Also open for suggestions etc. i just made my into thread!
Appreciate you all!!
Cody

 

[dwest]

good evening. i setup my first tank a little over 24 hours ago. i have the aquatop refice 40 Gal AIO. i bought my first 40 gallons from my LFS. they gave my 20 Gal fresh saltwater. They also gave me 20 Gal from a tank inside the store. i was told this would speed up my overall cycle and reduce time to get coral into the tank.

First off i forget what they exactly called the tank water. i want to say setted water but i do honestly forget. Secondly what are the benefits of using this water in a new tank. I was told i can add my rock tomorrow (having a aquascape custom built from the shop) as well as my first fish. I have my dr. tims ready as well. Would you suggest this?

Any info on this type of process will be appreciated. Also open for suggestions etc. i just made my into thread!
Appreciate you all!!
Cody

The tank water from the store will contain some, but not much, of the beneficial bacteria so the tank can process ammonia excreted from the fish. Dr. Tim’s can be lots of different products. If it is a product that contains Nitrifying bacteria to help cycle your tank then you may be good to go. I personally would do a fishless cycle, but if you have a trusted local fish store, then his way might be fine. I also am a huge proponent of quarantine of new fish.

My Current QT Process

UPDATE, 10/9/22: For those looking for quarantine information, our current process is kept updated on the first page of this thread (post any questions at the end of the thread). https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/current-quarantine-protocol.825055/ Thanks, Jay Hemdal I am frequently...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[fisherc92]

The tank water from the store will contain some, but not much, of the beneficial bacteria so the tank can process ammonia excreted from the fish. Dr. Tim’s can be lots of different products. If it is a product that contains Nitrifying bacteria to help cycle your tank then you may be good to go. I personally would do a fishless cycle, but if you have a trusted local fish store, then his way might be fine. I also am a huge proponent of quarantine of new fish.

My Current QT Process

UPDATE, 10/9/22: For those looking for quarantine information, our current process is kept updated on the first page of this thread (post any questions at the end of the thread). https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/current-quarantine-protocol.825055/ Thanks, Jay Hemdal I am frequently...

www.reef2reef.com

thank you for the reply. to be clear i have dr tims one and only LIVE- has my nitrifying bacteria! On the note of quarantining, if i put my first live fish with only rock into my main tank, is a quarantine necessary for that fish? Of course all the other fish/coral after it, but the first fish good to go?

 

[dwest]

thank you for the reply. to be clear i have dr tims one and only LIVE- has my nitrifying bacteria! On the note of quarantining, if i put my first live fish with only rock into my main tank, is a quarantine necessary for that fish? Of course all the other fish/coral after it, but the first fish good to go?

I personally would quarantine that first fish as well. There are numerous scenarios where it will be more problems than it’s worth by not doing so.

Some people don’t quarantine. But eventually many of us learned the hard way that’s its best. Either way, good luck!

 

[Badilac]

On the note of quarantining, if i put my first live fish with only rock into my main tank, is a quarantine necessary for that fish? Of course all the other fish/coral after it, but the first fish good to go?

NO. The first fish could be sick and pass it on to any other fish added later. Or the first fish could be a carrier of a certain disease and show no symptoms. Also there is no way on gods green earth that I would add used saltwater from a store for my tank. Stores are notorious for having fish disease / parasites and now you very well could have introduced that into your brand new tank. Parasites can be free swimmers in the water column or they can be encrusted onto the surface of rock, coral, snails, etc.

 

[MeMyFishandI]

thank you for the reply. to be clear i have dr tims one and only LIVE- has my nitrifying bacteria! On the note of quarantining, if i put my first live fish with only rock into my main tank, is a quarantine necessary for that fish? Of course all the other fish/coral after it, but the first fish good to go?

I would say that your first fish in the tank would be fine without QT as they will be the only fish.

However....as your tank isn’t self sufficient with regards to bacteria I would only add one, two fish tops, until it is able to keep stable parameters on its own.

 

[Nanojoe]

I would cycle the tank fishless. Add the dr. tims and test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Dont rush this process as adding fish too early could be harmful and painful for the fish in the event your tank is not cycled yet. Ghost feeding the tank would be a great way to add some nutrients to help build this bacteria. Store water out of their tanks is a little sketchy as you have no idea what goes on at their store. Even from past mishaps or if they even added copper at one point...
If your tests show nitrates and 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite then go ahead and add fish. but you also want to factor in pH, temperature as well. QT as mentioned above is a must if you can...
Good luck and congrats on the new setup!

 

[PicassoClown04]

Personally, I used live rock from my friends 20 year old sump and his water change water (the clean stuff) to set up my tank the first 2 months. I never experienced a cycle and put corals in the same day I put water in. They have been thriving and continue to (set up in Feb). I’d say the Dr. Tim’s is a good safety precaution as you’re using new rock but I would also highly recommend you purchase WET live rock rubble from your LFS, should be really cheap. This will help seed your tank and is less likely to have any critters (I personally enjoy hitchhikers but I know they’re not for everybody). The wet live rock will have good bacteria in it that will help speed things along. Getting an RODI system for your house is also good for the future cause trust me, hauling water from the LFS gets old really fast.

I’d say you don’t need to QT the first fish as long as you don’t have coral in your tank. This way you can medicate and it will be fine. I’d say definitely set up a QT tank just for the future if you plan on adding 5 or more fish (dont know how large your tank is) I personally do not QT but my tank tops out at 3 fish so I found it unnecessary. Many LFS will QT your fish for you if you ask nicely and offer to pay them to do it, this is a good option for smaller tanks because IMO it’s not worth it to set up and run a qt for 3 fish added months apart. If you decide to not QT, it’s very important to choose healthy fish.

Choose fish that are swimming actively and correctly (not sideways, upside down, or lethargically), have no signs of illness (abnormal spots on body, cloudy eyes, wounds, etc), and the most important is that you see the fish eat. All good LFS will happily feed a fish for you to demonstrate its health. If the fish eats quickly, voraciously, and is very focused on the food then it’s probably okay. Only buy a fish if it Meet’s ALL THREE of these requirements. I have been using this method my entire life and I have never ever lost a fish due to it being sick from the store or disease. I learned this method from my father who worked in an LFS for 20 years and continues to keep fish today. Works for both salt and freshwater fish and inverts as well.

In short, add the water, add the rocks (you don’t need to cycle a tank before adding rocks that’s just crazy), definitely add some WET live rock pebbles/rubble, add the Dr. Tims, test for ammonia, if it’s good then add a fish, and if everything’s still okay after two weeks with the fish then go ahead and test out some corals! Good luck and I hope everything goes well for you!!

 

[lion king]

I would find another store. Beneficial bacteria colonize on porous surfaces, the amount free floating bacteria is so minimal, it is useless. But what you can do is transfer any potential disease and negative bacteria found in their systems. Almost the 1st initial rule taught to newbies, is don't transfer the water in the bag to your tank.

 

[neiltus]

a lot of our answers rely on information we have from years of experience in the hobby.

I can think of at least a half dozen questions I would ask the fish store before I used their water. I would not use their water. I would get an ro unit, a good one. I also would not be in a hurry to cycle it. Dr. Tim's, sure, but

I might put certain fish in without qt'ing them....but I have done this for years....and its also with the understanding that I am stocking and possibly monitoring behavior (thinking of 4/5 small fish-and one will be a leader), getting coraline and learning how to settle the dkh, ca, mg, and mix water. Get and adjust lighting....all that misc stuff. All this months before I start with any frags.

cycling a tank is a test of patience....you will need this in this hobby.

 

[gotem86]

The used tank water isn’t going to have a meaningful amount of bacteria in it. What it will have, is nitrates and phosphates. I have never heard of a LFS giving someone their water, this is a red flag for me.

Are they making your scape with dry rock, or wet live rock? The wet live rock will have beneficial bacteria and will help speed things up

 

[fisherc92]

I personally would quarantine that first fish as well. There are numerous scenarios where it will be more problems than it’s worth by not doing so.

Some people don’t quarantine. But eventually many of us learned the hard way that’s its best. Either way, good luck!

appreciate you. i just read your thread for QT and will be referencing it im sure as i go along the journey!

 

[fisherc92]

I would say that your first fish in the tank would be fine without QT as they will be the only fish.

However....as your tank isn’t self sufficient with regards to bacteria I would only add one, two fish tops, until it is able to keep stable parameters on its own.

thank you!

 

[fisherc92]

I would cycle the tank fishless. Add the dr. tims and test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Dont rush this process as adding fish too early could be harmful and painful for the fish in the event your tank is not cycled yet. Ghost feeding the tank would be a great way to add some nutrients to help build this bacteria. Store water out of their tanks is a little sketchy as you have no idea what goes on at their store. Even from past mishaps or if they even added copper at one point...
If your tests show nitrates and 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite then go ahead and add fish. but you also want to factor in pH, temperature as well. QT as mentioned above is a must if you can...
Good luck and congrats on the new setup!

thank you for your input. As far as the store water goes i will have to ask some questions when i go in Thursday for my rock. I have to say they seemed really confident in this process as they easily could have gave me 40Gal fresh saltwater. He seemed like i would succeed in taking his method as he said this is his #1 selling setup for novices coming into the hobby. The tank looked great too, not too much bioload.

 

[Reef.]

The fresh water would have cost them more to give you, they gave you USED water, we all go to great lengths not to add even a drop of shop water to our tanks because they have so many fish, their water is almost certainly carrying some disease, of course they sounded confident, no offence but they were talking to someone with very little knowledge, if an experienced reefer went into that shop I bet they wouldn’t try and sell them used tank water. Find a new LFS.

 

[fisherc92]

Personally, I used live rock from my friends 20 year old sump and his water change water (the clean stuff) to set up my tank the first 2 months. I never experienced a cycle and put corals in the same day I put water in. They have been thriving and continue to (set up in Feb). I’d say the Dr. Tim’s is a good safety precaution as you’re using new rock but I would also highly recommend you purchase WET live rock rubble from your LFS, should be really cheap. This will help seed your tank and is less likely to have any critters (I personally enjoy hitchhikers but I know they’re not for everybody). The wet live rock will have good bacteria in it that will help speed things along. Getting an RODI system for your house is also good for the future cause trust me, hauling water from the LFS gets old really fast.

I’d say you don’t need to QT the first fish as long as you don’t have coral in your tank. This way you can medicate and it will be fine. I’d say definitely set up a QT tank just for the future if you plan on adding 5 or more fish (dont know how large your tank is) I personally do not QT but my tank tops out at 3 fish so I found it unnecessary. Many LFS will QT your fish for you if you ask nicely and offer to pay them to do it, this is a good option for smaller tanks because IMO it’s not worth it to set up and run a qt for 3 fish added months apart. If you decide to not QT, it’s very important to choose healthy fish.

Choose fish that are swimming actively and correctly (not sideways, upside down, or lethargically), have no signs of illness (abnormal spots on body, cloudy eyes, wounds, etc), and the most important is that you see the fish eat. All good LFS will happily feed a fish for you to demonstrate its health. If the fish eats quickly, voraciously, and is very focused on the food then it’s probably okay. Only buy a fish if it Meet’s ALL THREE of these requirements. I have been using this method my entire life and I have never ever lost a fish due to it being sick from the store or disease. I learned this method from my father who worked in an LFS for 20 years and continues to keep fish today. Works for both salt and freshwater fish and inverts as well.

In short, add the water, add the rocks (you don’t need to cycle a tank before adding rocks that’s just crazy), definitely add some WET live rock pebbles/rubble, add the Dr. Tims, test for ammonia, if it’s good then add a fish, and if everything’s still okay after two weeks with the fish then go ahead and test out some corals! Good luck and I hope everything goes well for you!!

thanks for taking the time to respond. im very appreciative. Your process sounds alot like what ill be doing as well so id love to pick your brain sometime if im ever stuck! I am currently running my aquatic RO+DI system (50GPD) to get it ready for my first top-off! i only got my first 40Gal at the store because of their suggestions. Ill be using tropic marin salt as well.
I do not YET have a QT tank, but it is on my list of to-gets.
I will definitely be looking for fish using your families criteria... thanks dad!
So in short
added water, getting rock thursday, gonna look for a cheap clown/cardinal.
Also, have not done any water testing yet - gonna do that whn the RODI is finsished.

Heres a couple pictures of the tank so everyone can get an idea

Aquatop 40Gal - included skimmer / media
150W heater
RedSea LED90
*upgraded return pump nozzle, patent from LFS, greatly increases flow (he said this sells itself and wont need a powerhead, we shall see)

 

[fisherc92]

I would find another store. Beneficial bacteria colonize on porous surfaces, the amount free floating bacteria is so minimal, it is useless. But what you can do is transfer any potential disease and negative bacteria found in their systems. Almost the 1st initial rule taught to newbies, is don't transfer the water in the bag to your tank.

thank you i definitely have some questions to ask about their process.

 

[dwest]

appreciate you. i just read your thread for QT and will be referencing it im sure as i go along the journey!

It’s not my thread but a great one I use.

 

[fisherc92]

a lot of our answers rely on information we have from years of experience in the hobby.

I can think of at least a half dozen questions I would ask the fish store before I used their water. I would not use their water. I would get an ro unit, a good one. I also would not be in a hurry to cycle it. Dr. Tim's, sure, but

I might put certain fish in without qt'ing them....but I have done this for years....and its also with the understanding that I am stocking and possibly monitoring behavior (thinking of 4/5 small fish-and one will be a leader), getting coraline and learning how to settle the dkh, ca, mg, and mix water. Get and adjust lighting....all that misc stuff. All this months before I start with any frags.

cycling a tank is a test of patience....you will need this in this hobby.

thank you. and to anyone else responding on my page.
i have the aquatic life ro+di50GPD
also the RedSea 90LED

i also think i have the patience for a cycle,but like most people commenting on this post the use of tank water from my LFS is throwing me off what would be a normal cycle.

 

[fisherc92]

The used tank water isn’t going to have a meaningful amount of bacteria in it. What it will have, is nitrates and phosphates. I have never heard of a LFS giving someone their water, this is a red flag for me.

Are they making your scape with dry rock, or wet live rock? The wet live rock will have beneficial bacteria and will help speed things up

The fresh water would have cost them more to give you, they gave you USED water, we all go to great lengths not to add even a drop of shop water to our tanks because they have so many fish, their water is almost certainly carrying some disease, of course they sounded confident, no offence but they were talking to someone with very little knowledge, if an experienced reefer went into that shop I bet they wouldn’t try and sell them used tank water. Find a new LFS.

appreciate it. and no offense taken! thats why i posted. but where to go from here is the question.