Hammers Slowly Die

[Hasted]

I will try to be as detailed as possible.

I purchased a beautiful hammer from WWC in May. Fully died mid September.
I purchased a second cheaper hammer in July from shop.

What's happening? My 1st hammer (larger, one head) opened up for a couple months. Then continuously got smaller and smaller until it receded fully into its skeleton. And then poof (September). Was a long process it felt. My second hammer (small, 1 head) has started to shrink the last month also. No longer extended and flowing ever (that I notice).

Feeding:
Spot Feed LRS nano 1x weekly.
Spot Feed Reef Roids 1x weekly (increased this recently to bump up nutrients due to 0/0 Nitrate/Phosph)
Red Sea AB+ 3-5x week. 1x spot, rest broadcast.

Dips: I have dipped both the hammers multiple times. Fresh water, CoralRx, and some other thing I forget name. Usually ever 2 weeks. First time I saw what appeared to be ghost flatworms on the skeleton. Fell off. Since then, nothing has come off of the hammers from dips. I have not seen a ghost flatworm in nearly 2 months anywhere in the tank.

Lights: I am using the BRS recommended settings/spacing for AI Prime 16HD over a 40 breeder (100%, two primes, close to same dimensions as my XL300). Currently on sand bed somewhat close to center of puck. "Should" be getting enough light?

Flow: Currently in lower flow area of indirect flow. Enough to make the hammers wave when hit. I have also tried a much higher flow.

Livestock: Just two clownfish, YWG, Pistol Shrimp, snails, hermits. I have not seen anyone bother it.

Levels recently in Red Sea Xl300 (80 total gal):
Temp, 77.1
pH, 7.8
Amm, 0
Nitrite, 0
Nitrate, 0 (working on bumping this up, had Dinos for a couple weeks, mostly under control now)
Phosphate, 0.02 (was also recently 0.00 and Dinos, raised now)
Salinity, 1.0251
Alk, 9.2
Calc, 402
Mag, 1410

These levels have been pretty steady.
Religious weekly 5-10g water changes up until Nitrate/Phosph bottoming out. Skipped a week, fed heavier, etc to combat it.

Other info:

I thought maybe the Dinos and/or algae was bothering the hammer (had a small string that would form on the skeleton that would show after receding and such). After getting Dinos under control, there hasn't been much on my 2nd hammer. I can't say that it is being bothered by that at all.

There has been no brown jelly looking stuff. Also, I assume it isn't brown jelly due to how slow the "dying" process was for the 1st one.

They always seem to have their color and not bleached. They just don't extend and definitely not fluffy once the "process" seems to start.

The 2nd hammer was happy as can be for a good amount of time while the 1st hammer was slowly dying.

Other corals are doing great. Zoas, Acans, Blastos, Favia, Spongodes Monti, Lepterosis (up until I recently moved it...).

I have a few pictures I can show at various times if I switch over to my phone. If they will be helpful, let me know. Gladly will dig through and timestamp them all with a description.

I appreciate any help. My 1st hammer was by far my favorite and most expensive coral I had. My wife also loved it, which is important! I would love more hammers (And frog/torches), but I feel as though I would just kill them like my last one.

 

[Clowning_Around72]

I have similar issues with hammers and torches as they are the only corals my coral beauty does not pick at and the only corals my diamond watchman goby does not bury (yes it even buries sps on the top rocks). I honestly have no clue how they can look good then suddenly turn bad over months.

 

[Jilly92]

How old is your tank? How did you cycle it?

 

[vetteguy53081]

They seem to do best at lower 1/3 of tank under moderate light and water flow with feeding twice per week
See if your salinity readings is false and higher than gage is saying
High alk and low ph will also cause this or too much flow

 

[ScubaFish802]

I would say the water is too clean for a euphyllia. From my understanding they like it a bit dirtier

 

[Hasted]

How old is your tank? How did you cycle it?

This is an upgrade from a 29g tank using the same rocks + some. 29g was up for 5 months. This tank has been up for 2 months. A total of 7 months. So, somewhat new still, but not brand new. I used BioSpira and dry rock in 29g 7 months ago. Cycled more rocks in a bucket during this time. New set up was pre cycled rocks, 29g rocks, more BioSpira. Once cycled, I moved clowns. Waited a few days. Moved corals, YWG, shrimp, CUC over 2 weeks.

They seem to do best at lower 1/3 of tank under moderate light and water flow with feeding twice per week
See if your salinity readings is false and higher than gage is saying
High alk and low ph will also cause this or too much flow

They relax on my sandbed, so def. lower 3rd. They are closer to the center of the pucks so they "should" be getting moderate light. I can move them up a bit higher to see if they react better?

I am feeding LRS 1x, Roids 1x, and AB+ target 1x weekly. I could bump up LRS to 2x a week to have a more substantial meal?

I have tried them in stronger and lower flow. Let sit for ~2 weeks at least. Not a big difference that I have noticed. My remaining Hammer is currently in lower flow for the last 3 weeks or so. No corals near it that could be stinging.

I have a Hannah tester for salinity that I calibrate on the 1st of every month. I can double check with a refractometer tonight.

Is my Alk/pH out of whack? Was 402 and 7.8 respectively. I am unsure what time of the day my last pH reading was. Usually 7.8-8.0 depending on the time of day I test it (Skimmer has been off for 31 days, no refuge light. pH swings are expected due to this, yes?)

I would say the water is too clean for a euphyllia. From my understanding they like it a bit dirtier

My Nitrates and Phos definitely bottomed out at the end of Aug. I have been working to pump them up. Got Phos up, but still having issues with Nitrates. Skimmer off 31 days, heavier feeding of LRS and Roids. Skipped my last WC and previous couple have been smaller (5g) to just clean up algae and such.

The 1st hammer was receding prior to this, though.
Example, on Aug7 I had 5 Nitrate / 0.03 Phoph.
Aug15 I had 10 Nitrate / 0.02 Phos.


Would that also be considered TOO clean? I am still trying to bump up nitrates and can report back once they are elevated. Might be a while. Been battling 0 for a month...

 

[vetteguy53081]

This is an upgrade from a 29g tank using the same rocks + some. 29g was up for 5 months. This tank has been up for 2 months. A total of 7 months. So, somewhat new still, but not brand new. I used BioSpira and dry rock in 29g 7 months ago. Cycled more rocks in a bucket during this time. New set up was pre cycled rocks, 29g rocks, more BioSpira. Once cycled, I moved clowns. Waited a few days. Moved corals, YWG, shrimp, CUC over 2 weeks.



They relax on my sandbed, so def. lower 3rd. They are closer to the center of the pucks so they "should" be getting moderate light. I can move them up a bit higher to see if they react better?

I am feeding LRS 1x, Roids 1x, and AB+ target 1x weekly. I could bump up LRS to 2x a week to have a more substantial meal?

I have tried them in stronger and lower flow. Let sit for ~2 weeks at least. Not a big difference that I have noticed. My remaining Hammer is currently in lower flow for the last 3 weeks or so. No corals near it that could be stinging.

I have a Hannah tester for salinity that I calibrate on the 1st of every month. I can double check with a refractometer tonight.

Is my Alk/pH out of whack? Was 402 and 7.8 respectively. I am unsure what time of the day my last pH reading was. Usually 7.8-8.0 depending on the time of day I test it (Skimmer has been off for 31 days, no refuge light. pH swings are expected due to this, yes?)



My Nitrates and Phos definitely bottomed out at the end of Aug. I have been working to pump them up. Got Phos up, but still having issues with Nitrates. Skimmer off 31 days, heavier feeding of LRS and Roids. Skipped my last WC and previous couple have been smaller (5g) to just clean up algae and such.

The 1st hammer was receding prior to this, though.
Example, on Aug7 I had 5 Nitrate / 0.03 Phoph.
Aug15 I had 10 Nitrate / 0.02 Phos.


Would that also be considered TOO clean? I am still trying to bump up nitrates and can report back once they are elevated. Might be a while. Been battling 0 for a month...

Mine hated sandbed as sand always ended on it and irritated them. I brought them up and see the pic below.
Ph range should be 8.1-8.3
Salinity 1.025
Alk 8-9

 

[Clowning_Around72]

Mine hated sandbed as sand always ended on it and irritated them. I brought them up and see the pic below.
Ph range should be 8.1-8.3
Salinity 1.025
Alk 8-9

Hammers get very irritated by getting sand dumped on them.

 

[Hasted]

Mine hated sandbed as sand always ended on it and irritated them. I brought them up and see the pic below.
Ph range should be 8.1-8.3
Salinity 1.025
Alk 8-9

Whoa, what a beautiful tank. See full reply below:

Hammers get very irritated by getting sand dumped on them.

I can say that I haven't seen any sand dumped on either of my hammers. My YWG is lazy and the Pistol doesn't burrow near them. My sand moves a bit on one corner due to MP40, but is the opposite side of tank.

I think my plan is to:

Raise the remaining hammer up a bit. See if it wants more light.
Feed LRS 2x a week rather than just once.

I will come back in a week or so and update you all. :) Thanks for the help so far.

 

[Biglew11]

i would try to bump phosphate to maybe .07-.08 and see how they react. i had bottomed my phosphates out and still have to does to keep them detectable. corals that were looking bad are coming back from the brink.

 

[OrangeCountyReefer]

You may have just had bad luck with the both of them. Only thing I would maybe say is your lighting is too much, I have one hydra 32 over my lagoon and I Run it at about 30% and my hammer garden is flourishing. Also should have detectable amounts of nitrates and phosphates.

 

[Hasted]

You may have just had bad luck with the both of them. Only thing I would maybe say is your lighting is too much, I have one hydra 32 over my lagoon and I Run it at about 30% and my hammer garden is flourishing. Also should have detectable amounts of nitrates and phosphates.

In theory, it should be ~100 - 120 par. I haven't used a par tool to confirm this for my own tank.

What are some signs that it is getting too much light?

 

[Hasted]

Update. Moved my hammer a bit up. Not much, just two inches or so.
Looks worse. Lighting probably isn't the issue?
May be approaching point of no return.

It looked a bit better earlier today. Was just full enough to cover the top. I blew off the rock near it a bit ago and it receded more to look like this.

I have attempted to feed it Reef Roids 1x, LRS nano 1x, and also have done AB+ daily.
No visible pests. Haven't dipped it since moving in hopes it would settle. Didn't want to upset it too much.

Any more advice?

 

[Biglew11]

have you got your nutrients up yet? i have a frog spawn that was doing very badly found out phosphates were bottomed out when i started dosing phosphates it started to come back, it's not good yet but it's getting better about 1.5 months into recovery. it looked about like your hammer does now.

 

[Hasted]

have you got your nutrients up yet? i have a frog spawn that was doing very badly found out phosphates were bottomed out when i started dosing phosphates it started to come back, it's not good yet but it's getting better about 1.5 months into recovery. it looked about like your hammer does now.

Just barely. My last few tests have been 0.01, 0.02, and 0.01 again.

No skimmer, 2 weeks of WC skips, haven't cleaned filter socks in 2 weeks, over feeding, extra Roids. I think I am doing everything NOT to remove them, just a slow process?

I will continue to try to get them up and monitor it. Thanks for your reply!

 

[Hasted]

Working from home today and will be doing tests between class times. So far:

I test frequently, but don't ways upload to my app. 9/6 is a week of trying to fix the issue with small (5g) waterchanges just to clean sand. It is representative of what my tank typically looks like. Current numbers with 3 weeks of no WC so things are starting to drop.. I usually snap pics of my results and can add in a couple more days between these if needed.

I will update this post throughout the day assuming I get the breaks I expect.

 

[Hasted]

Finally got some Nitrates (5-10) and was at 0.07 Phosphate.

Was able to do a 15g water change (20%).

Here are some pics a day after the change:

It is still showing a little color and fluff. Hasn't seem to recede any this last week. Also, doesn't seem to have recovered any.

What I have done so far:

Moved to slightly higher part in tank.

Moved to slightly lower flow (just how that spot is)

Finished a Fluconozole cycle.

Fluco helped raise Nitrates and Phosp by taking out algae.

Fed every other day. LRS Nano, Roids, AB+ spot feeding.

I also broadcast AB+ 4 days a week.

****

I also found a great price for a Frogspawn. Since this one is no longer getting worse (it seems), I decided to pick it up to see how it would fair.
So far it is wide open and loving life. I am not counting that as a win yet, since both my hammers also did that for the first month. Will be keeping an eye on these continually.

Should be roughly the same lighting, but a lot more flow.

 

[NeonRabbit221B]

I have also struggled with hammers/frog spawns/ect.

 

[Dave1993]

Do you have other type of Euphyllia torch/frogspawn are they doing fine is it just hammers?

 

[Hasted]

Do you have other type of Euphyllia torch/frogspawn are they doing fine is it just hammers?

History
1 Hammer died over 3 months or so.

The Hammer pictured is still alive, but struggling (1st set of pics)

I picked up a Frogspawn just this week (also pictured at end). Open and happy so far.

No torches.