Hawaii Fish Ban Update

[winxp_man]

Baseless statements claiming that these fisheries use cyanide with no actual proof will just make this hobby look even worse than it is.

At a certain point we can't just keep blaming cyanide for every fish that die on us.

I guess you really did miss read my post. I AM talkin about fish that died in my care with the attributes of cyanide issues. Had one before that passed from velvet which was my fault. Little guy was good. But the batch of fish that the two LSF's had where real bad. Dying before they even got sold in the case of the LFS that had 6 that died.

I asked about locations of the fish. Was not given an answer. Willing to bet Indonesia or the Philippines. Where cyanide is prevalent as a form of catching fish.

I'm not easy to blame cyanide as I even stated above. I simple said the batch that I got about 3 months ago, and what the LFS's have gotten in that time frame and how they died suggests that. Since then the bigger shop has still imported more and watching them in their tanks, being I'm in that LFS every other day they seem okay. And they list when they receive them.

SO again stop stating or insinuating that I'm only blaming cyanide. But fact is now many come from the marshal islands???? And are truly labeled that? Are the Cyanide police in the LFS store holding them accountable for not labeling a fish from where its caught correctly? We know some do shady things to make a buck, and will tell you whatever it is you need to hear to get you to buy. Saying otherwise is saying that most shops are not in the business to make money haha.

Again cyanide is an issue. Is it all of the issue? NO! Just saying that for me the past 3-4 months has shown that. And its what my original post was directed at after some back and forth with some of the members in another thread.

 

[BloopFish]

I guess you really did miss read my post. I AM talkin about fish that died in my care with the attributes of cyanide issues. Had one before that passed from velvet which was my fault. Little guy was good. But the batch of fish that the two LSF's had where real bad. Dying before they even got sold in the case of the LFS that had 6 that died.

I asked about locations of the fish. Was not given an answer. Willing to bet Indonesia or the Philippines. Where cyanide is prevalent as a form of catching fish.

I'm not easy to blame cyanide as I even stated above. I simple said the batch that I got about 3 months ago, and what the LFS's have gotten in that time frame and how they died suggests that. Since then the bigger shop has still imported more and watching them in their tanks, being I'm in that LFS every other day they seem okay. And they list when they receive them.

SO again stop stating or insinuating that I'm only blaming cyanide. But fact is now many come from the marshal islands???? And are truly labeled that? Are the Cyanide police in the LFS store holding them accountable for not labeling a fish from where its caught correctly? We know some do shady things to make a buck, and will tell you whatever it is you need to hear to get you to buy. Saying otherwise is saying that most shops are not in the business to make money haha.

Again cyanide is an issue. Is it all of the issue? NO! Just saying that for me the past 3-4 months has shown that. And its what my original post was directed at after some back and forth with some of the members in another thread.

Again, why do you think it is cyanide and not something else? Occam's razor would really help here.

Do you understand how uncommon flame angels are from Indonesia or the Philippines? I highly doubt the ones you got were from either region... Out of an entire distributor list for fish from somewhere like RVS Philippines - you'd be hard pressed to reliably see flame angels on there. Even when its on there you wouldn't be able to get more than a handful on most occasion. On the other hand, if you pull a list from somewhere in Micronesia, you would see hundreds of flame angels every week.

I highly doubt the big distributors that your LFS sourced from would commit fraud by intentionally mislabeling a flame angel to be from the Central Pacific when its from Indonesia or the Philippines.... when only a tiny fraction of their flame angels are NOT from the Central Pacific. Again, why are you pointing the blame on someone else once again? What do you think is more likely? That your fish died due to bad luck or not enough TLC or that you bought the TINY portion of flame angels that are caught in Indonesia and Philippines and and importer committed fraud and labeled it as being from somewhere else and that the fish collector is also using cyanide? Also, its worth mentioning not every fish collector in these two regions use cyanide either so that narrows your likelihood of blaming your fish loss on some random unfortunate chain of event that most likely never happened.

Again, if you REALLY believe in this somehow still - then go ahead and buy the flame angels from a REPUTABLE vendor that can answer you where the fish comes from. A simple Google search would result in you finding some vendors that will even tell you what specific ISLAND that the flame angel came from as well.

 

[winxp_man]

Again, why do you think it is cyanide and not something else? Occam's razor would really help here.

Do you understand how uncommon flame angels are from Indonesia or the Philippines? I highly doubt the ones you got were from either region... Out of an entire distributor list for fish from somewhere like RVS Philippines - you'd be hard pressed to reliably see flame angels on there. Even when its on there you wouldn't be able to get more than a handful on most occasion. On the other hand, if you pull a list from somewhere in Micronesia, you would see hundreds of flame angels every week.

I highly doubt the big distributors that your LFS sourced from would commit fraud by intentionally mislabeling a flame angel to be from the Central Pacific when its from Indonesia or the Philippines.... when only a tiny fraction of their flame angels are NOT from the Central Pacific. Again, why are you pointing the blame on someone else once again? What do you think is more likely? That your fish died due to bad luck or not enough TLC or that you bought the TINY portion of flame angels that are caught in Indonesia and Philippines and and importer committed fraud and labeled it as being from somewhere else and that the fish collector is also using cyanide? Also, its worth mentioning not every fish collector in these two regions use cyanide either so that narrows your likelihood of blaming your fish loss on some random unfortunate chain of event that most likely never happened.

Again, if you REALLY believe in this somehow still - then go ahead and buy the flame angels from a REPUTABLE vendor that can answer you where the fish comes from. A simple Google search would result in you finding some vendors that will even tell you what specific ISLAND that the flame angel came from as well.

Out of the blue erratic behavior and swimming in circles to only end up dead within minutes. At first I I thought the first one that passed in such a way hit the glass of the tank. But the second was seen normal somewhat to only go around in circles and die as stated again minutes later. I then got on here and had a chat with the medics and others having seen the same issue. The deduction is that its cyanide when fish die in such a way. It can happen day one or a week later. One died at a 4 days..... the other at about a week and a day or two.

No signs of disease, no ich, velvet, no flukes, uronema not seen externally, to die from internal it would not have been eating till the day it died I would venture off to say, eating just fine while in QT. The first one was with a coral beauty and my powder blue that I still have till this day. IT was separated from the powder and CB by a egg crate wall. But same tank. Not issues between the three fish only the flame dying out of nowhere.

Again not my first angle. And had one die to velvet.

 

[Hawaiian AQ]

Just so you know, the vast majority of flames that came out of Hawaii were not even caught in Hawaii. They are bit of a rarity there. Most of the collection regions for flame angels are not even known to have cyanide problems. They are quite rare in the infamous regions like Indonesia and Philippines.

This is all correct. Most of the flames are incorrectly assumed to be from Hawaii, when in fact they are just transiting through. However, on the Big Island, we have decent recruitment of flames but are not allowed to catch/sell them at this time. My profile pic is a mated pair of true Hawaiian flames. Most all the flames are coming from Majuro in the Marshalls or Xmas island(Kiribati) and flowing to the mainland US wholesalers now. When the HI Aq fishery was open, these flames were being imported into Honolulu, HI blended in with Hi fish and then shipped on to mainland. So the logistics have changed quite a bit. Very little is still flowing into Hawaii and then onward.

Flames don’t really come from other stations around the world. Not Indo or the Philippines and if a few were caught they would be flukes or from some non typical location region that brought fish to the exporter. They can come from Vanuatu, Solomons or PNG but the freight is outrageous and I doubt that’s what we are speaking about.

As to the cyanide. This isn’t a thing in any fisheries. We use nets. I’ve fished throughout Indonesia, and the South Pacific. The guys there aren’t using cyanide. Some people say it’s still being used in the Philippines but I find these claims to be dubious. It just doesn’t make sense when you know what you’re doing which educational outreach decades ago, took effect.

fish can die mysteriously for a whole host of reasons. Doesn’t matter if they’re wild caught or even aquacultured. Obviously this isn’t what we want or expect and we do everything we can to prevent this happening but it still happens nonetheless.

This cyanide theory is what really needs to die. It just isn’t true and it’s quite damaging to real people who take their livelihoods very serious. It’s just a libelous attack from anti-aquarium activists and a coping mechanism from well intentioned, but misinformed hobbyist searching for an explanation to a mystery.

Sorry to hear about your fish Winn

 

[avm]

This is all correct. Most of the flames are incorrectly assumed to be from Hawaii, when in fact they are just transiting through. However, on the Big Island, we have decent recruitment of flames but are not allowed to catch/sell them at this time. My profile pic is a mated pair of true Hawaiian flames. Most all the flames are coming from Majuro in the Marshalls or Xmas island(Kiribati) and flowing to the mainland US wholesalers now. When the HI Aq fishery was open, these flames were being imported into Honolulu, HI blended in with Hi fish and then shipped on to mainland. So the logistics have changed quite a bit. Very little is still flowing into Hawaii and then onward.

Flames don’t really come from other stations around the world. Not Indo or the Philippines and if a few were caught they would be flukes or from some non typical location region that brought fish to the exporter. They can come from Vanuatu, Solomons or PNG but the freight is outrageous and I doubt that’s what we are speaking about.

As to the cyanide. This isn’t a thing in any fisheries. We use nets. I’ve fished throughout Indonesia, and the South Pacific. The guys there aren’t using cyanide. Some people say it’s still being used in the Philippines but I find these claims to be dubious. It just doesn’t make sense when you know what you’re doing which educational outreach decades ago, took effect.

fish can die mysteriously for a whole host of reasons. Doesn’t matter if they’re wild caught or even aquacultured. Obviously this isn’t what we want or expect and we do everything we can to prevent this happening but it still happens nonetheless.

This cyanide theory is what really needs to die. It just isn’t true and it’s quite damaging to real people who take their livelihoods very serious. It’s just a libelous attack from anti-aquarium activists and a coping mechanism from well intentioned, but misinformed hobbyist searching for an explanation to a mystery.

Sorry to hear about your fish Winn

Hello,

I’d like to know if, now that the fishing ban in Hawaii has ended, these species will become available again:

Flame wrasse, Geoffroy’s wrasse, Tinkeri butterflyfish, Anampses rubricephalus, Bandit angelfish, and Ornatissimus wrasse, cantigaster jactator, genicanthus personatus.

I know you have the most accurate information, so I’d really love to know. Thank you so much.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello,

I’d like to know if, now that the fishing ban in Hawaii has ended, these species will become available again:

Flame wrasse, Geoffroy’s wrasse, Tinkeri butterflyfish, Anampses rubricephalus, Bandit angelfish, and Ornatissimus wrasse, cantigaster jactator, genicanthus personatus.

I know you have the most accurate information, so I’d really love to know. Thank you so much.

Please read above. While this is out of legislature, there are still minor hurdles and permit issues to be overcome and while many have a wishlist, it is uncertain as to what fish and quantities can be collected.
Any updates and progress will be reported as becomes available

 

[Hawaiian AQ]

Hello,

I’d like to know if, now that the fishing ban in Hawaii has ended, these species will become available again:

Flame wrasse, Geoffroy’s wrasse, Tinkeri butterflyfish, Anampses rubricephalus, Bandit angelfish, and Ornatissimus wrasse, cantigaster jactator, genicanthus personatus.

I know you have the most accurate information, so I’d really love to know. Thank you so much.

No, not at the moment. However, fish species can change based on science and effort

 

[avm]

No, not at the moment. However, fish species can change based on science and effort

Thank you for your reply

 

[avm]

Please read above. While this is out of legislature, there are still minor hurdles and permit issues to be overcome and while many have a wishlist, it is uncertain as to what fish and quantities can be collected.
Any updates and progress will be reported as becomes available

Thank you for your reply

 

[Macropharyngodon]

sucks that even with all the legal hurdles cleared, there are still issues... Guess that's just real life for ya. But I would love for geoffroyi to come back.

 

[Hawaiian AQ]

sucks that even with all the legal hurdles cleared, there are still issues... Guess that's just real life for ya. But I would love for geoffroyi to come back.

They have a tiger by the tail.

 

[JayM]

Looks like the first quarter of next year will be the very soonest we can expect any positive news. The opposition is still fiercely fighting from the looks of it.

Maui News

 

[areefer01]

fish can die mysteriously for a whole host of reasons. Doesn’t matter if they’re wild caught or even aquacultured. Obviously this isn’t what we want or expect and we do everything we can to prevent this happening but it still happens nonetheless.

Agree here.

This cyanide theory is what really needs to die. It just isn’t true and it’s quite damaging to real people who take their livelihoods very serious. It’s just a libelous attack from anti-aquarium activists and a coping mechanism from well intentioned, but misinformed hobbyist searching for an explanation to a mystery.

Agree on the mindstory but I would also caution on stating factually that it is tied to activists. There are some that still see signs of it from certain areas who import fish. What that correlates to in numbers I do not know.

I understand your perspective and view though.

 

[Hawaiian AQ]

Looks like the first quarter of next year will be the very soonest we can expect any positive news. The opposition is still fiercely fighting from the looks of it.

Maui News

This article is factually incorrect on basically everything. Not surprising come from the Maui news.

 

[JayM]

This article is factually incorrect on basically everything. Not surprising come from the Maui news.

This article is factually incorrect on basically everything. Not surprising come from the Maui news.

I figured as much as soon as I read the 2nd paragraph. Everything I’ve read says the exact opposite of “already stressed coral reefs”.

 

[vetteguy53081]

This article is factually incorrect on basically everything. Not surprising come from the Maui news.

I thought the same asking myself, " What source" ??

 

[Mellotang]

I just want a pair of Hawaiian Flame Wrasse

 

[hatfielj]

I just want a pair of Hawaiian Flame Wrasse

I used to have a trio of flame wrasses. They are quite a sight when the male is showing full colors.
I would love some again, but I’m not paying what I fear these will cost when they become available again

 

[albano]

I just want a pair of Hawaiian Flame Wrasse

Doubt that they will ever be available, BUT, if they were, they’d cost a fortune!

 

[Hawaiian AQ]

They will be available again one day. Have no doubt.

Until then enjoy this photo I took! Lol