Healthiest Clams

[Poriferabob]

I'm not sure of the rules here, and it's not my intention to put any one vendor on blast. I would like to discuss long-term success of clams from different clam sellers. After doing some digging, I discovered one particular vendor that has built a reputation for having great clams might not have great long term success rates after all. I've found a lot of people posting about how great their clams look upon arrival, but if you check back six months later, a lot of times the clam has died. As a lot of us know, it's sometimes hard to pinpoint the cause of a clam death, and I'm not saying it's not sometimes simply the fault of an inexperienced aquarist. But I've also found that success with clams also means starting with a healthy specimen.
I would hope vendors would take such discussion not as insulting but instead useful and informative for them as well. Hopefully to pinpoint and fix any issues.
Obviously, I do have one particular vendor in mind but I want to make sure its okay to open a discussion like that before I mention who it is.

 

[dwest]

I have clams from my LFS and way back in the past from a place called clams.com. If I were to order a clam today online it would be from Pacific East. But I would exhaust all LFS opportunities first.

 

[Poriferabob]

I have clams from my LFS and way back in the past from a place called clams.com. If I were to order a clam today online it would be from Pacific East. But I would exhaust all LFS opportunities first.

Figured there would be more responses to this but since there have not been, I am actually thinking of Pacific East Aquaculture here. They seem to have a great clam reputation. But if you follow up with a lot of their clam customers, there seems to be a high mortality rate even with them. Thats why Im throwing the question out there. How many clams from PEA are still going strong 6 months after purchase? 1 year? Etc.

 

[csb123]

I wouldn’t throw one vendor under the bus. Clams are harder to keep than SPS, at least in my experience.

 

[Poriferabob]

I wouldn’t throw one vendor under the bus. Clams are harder to keep than SPS, at least in my experience.

Agreed. Which is why I stated previously, that my question is not meant as an attack but to possibly shine some light. I would think that most vendors would want to know this sort of thing. Sure, more than likely most of the time the problem is coming from the aquarist but if there is an issue with the animals themselves how else can we get to the bottom unless we openly discuss?

 

[chipmunkofdoom2]

I don't think you can really blame this on a vendor. Unless you know exactly how many clams they have shipped, exactly how many have died, and exactly how many still survive, you can't in good faith say it's a vendor problem. Even if you knew all that, you can't really quantitatively make a judgement about specimen quality until you factor in how experienced the aquarist is, how old the tank is, how the shipping went, etc.

Clams are also sort of a specialty item that doesn't survive very well. To quote a great academic who knows what he's talking about (Rich Ross), "clams suck at life." On top of that, only a few vendors really sell them. When you have something that's relatively difficult to keep alive and only a few vendors sell them, it'll be easy to point fingers and say "clams from vendor XYZ die in disproportionate amounts." Part of that's just going to be because they suck at life.

And for those who will inevitably jump in here and say they've kept a clam for thirteen thousand years and they're the easiest thing ever, some animals just don't like some tanks. I can't keep birdsnest alive to save my life, and I know I'm not the only one.

 

[Poriferabob]

I don't think you can really blame this on a vendor. Unless you know exactly how many clams they have shipped, exactly how many have died, and exactly how many still survive, you can't in good faith say it's a vendor problem. Even if you knew all that, you can't really quantitatively make a judgement about specimen quality until you factor in how experienced the aquarist is, how old the tank is, how the shipping went, etc.

Clams are also sort of a specialty item that doesn't survive very well. To quote a great academic who knows what he's talking about (Rich Ross), "clams suck at life." On top of that, only a few vendors really sell them. When you have something that's relatively difficult to keep alive and only a few vendors sell them, it'll be easy to point fingers and say "clams from vendor XYZ die in disproportionate amounts." Part of that's just going to be because they suck at life.

And for those who will inevitably jump in here and say they've kept a clam for thirteen thousand years and they're the easiest thing ever, some animals just don't like some tanks. I can't keep birdsnest alive to save my life, and I know I'm not the only one.

Valid points

 

[92Miata]

Birdsnests are way harder to keep then clams.

(EDIT: Although Birdsnests are similar to clams in that they often give you very little signs that they're not doing well - until they die)

 

[Poriferabob]

I guess I was just curious about PEA in particular seeing that, in terms of clams, they are sort of like the new Clams Direct, as far as a reputation for selling clams goes. Or at least it seems that way.

 

[92Miata]

I guess I was just curious about PEA in particular seeing that, in terms of clams, they are sort of like the new Clams Direct, as far as a reputation for selling clams goes. Or at least it seems that way.

I'd guess if you do more digging - you'll find that mortality rates on internet clams are high in general - largely because there's a ton of places selling 1-2" clams that both have low biomass and are thus less resilient - and because they still need food at that point. I know there are a bunch of LiveAquaria dead clam threads on here - and a bunch of AlgaeBarn threads. I'm sure there are others.

 

[Overboard]

I guess I was just curious about PEA in particular seeing that, in terms of clams, they are sort of like the new Clams Direct, as far as a reputation for selling clams goes. Or at least it seems that way.

I love clams. They have been tough for me when I screw up (alk swings and other assorted mistakes) and easy if I have my act together. When I have stable, reasonable parameters, my SPS thrive and so do clams. I have kept clams that lived for multiple years and I finally sold them when breaking down a tank, but I have also killed them in a matter of weeks. I honestly think I am usually the problem when things go wrong.

Clams Direct! I remember Barry (God rest his soul) and bought clams from him way back then and I had good success with them.

I personally feel PEA is solid and about as good as you can get for clams. (I am sure there are others too.) I was buying from Dr. Mac at the same time I was buying from Barry, so I am really dating myself. They know corals and clams really well. They have been to the source many times, from French Polynesia to the Solomon Islands, and helped set up aquaculture facilities and supply chains. I have visited PEA on 4 or 5 occasions over the years (pre-fire), and I don't recall ever seeing a clam with a partially retracted mantle that was on its way down. No one is perfect and I am certain they must have losses as does everyone, but I don't think they would sell a clam that didn't feel was healthy. I have been impressed with Dr. Mac's first hand knowledge. I can't guess how many times he has flown to the Pacific. I want his miles!

I have been drooling over their teardrops lately.

Good luck!!

 

[bsagea]

Downside to purchasing online is that you cannot tell if the clam has any growth or exhibits the very healthy area on the side of the clam where the mantle attaches to the shell. It can actually take several months for a clam to die. If you buy online and see there's no growth when you receive it, you have no way of knowing how long it's been missing the necessary lighting and nutrients to survive. It's near impossible to bring a clam back once it's starts to die. I believe that's why people don't have some of them long term. Best to purchase one from your LFS if it's at all possible where you can see the growth and healthy area. I have experienced the same issue with regards to your vendor conversation. 3 - 6 months and gone. Years ago I had over (30) clams between our (2) tanks. Most were purchased on sight not online. I had them anywhere from 6 months - 5 yrs until what I refer to as the "clam plague" took them out one by each day until they were gone except for (1) blue squamosa which didn't seem affected. He met his death at my hand when I knocked him off a rock he had attached to and ripped his bysal out....bsa

 

[Butcher333]

Bummer

 

[hart24601]

Bit late to this party but I have at least 4 clams from PEA, 2 hippo, 2 maxima for a couple years now. I honestly can’t remember where I got my squammy or 2 derasa from, so possibly 7, lol.

I did get pyramid snails from PEA as did my friend, but with the amount they import it’s hard not to.

The only other places I have had multi year success in the past 5 years have been directly from ORA and Biota.

 

[OrionN]

It is unreasonable to hold a seller responsible for clams death after a week or so, when there is evidence of recent clam growth when you receive the clam, or evidence of clam growth after you receive the clams. Case like this, there is no one to blame but the reefer.
This is not to say that there isn't a possibility of the clams got some disease when it arrive. A good seller can take precautions and try to treat diseases, and remove parasites from their clams, however the ultimate responsible party is the reefer himself.
Cannot stress QT for clams enough

 

[Tom Giddens]

Birdsnests are way harder to keep then clams.

(EDIT: Although Birdsnests are similar to clams in that they often give you very little signs that they're not doing well - until they die)

Real birds and reptiles are the same way!

 

[Tom Giddens]

I have been keeping saltwater sinces the mid 80's and used to buy clams from Clams Direct and Pacific east and always between 6- 18 months they perished witin a few days and this has happed in different systems. Then I see people on forums with pics of a 2' Gigas saying they go it at 2" and have never had any trouble??? They just dont have a great survival rate. IAbout a year ago I bought some clams from Algae barn and Matt's Corals and all seemed healthy and alert, but 10 months later they started to die 1 at a time over a few day period despite have the same numbers on water chemistry the whole time. So you cant really say it is the vendor if these animals live in your system for 6 months to a year before dying. There is more to it most of the people I talk to that have had success say stable parameters solid lighting and feed Phyto. I think for the most part these are specialty animals and dont have a stellar survival rate.

 

[OrionN]

PEA (Dr. Mac) clams just arrived yesterday. 2 inches, 89.99 each with good evidence of growth recently. Can't ask for anything more.

 

[SMSREEF]

Agreed. Which is why I stated previously, that my question is not meant as an attack but to possibly shine some light. I would think that most vendors would want to know this sort of thing. Sure, more than likely most of the time the problem is coming from the aquarist but if there is an issue with the animals themselves how else can we get to the bottom unless we openly discuss?

I don’t think it has to do with the vendor.
If they arrive and look great after being shipped, then take a turn for the worse a week or months later, I would say it is only due to new owner and the environment it is currently in, what it is being fed, tank parameters and lighting.

 

[DeniseAndy]

As far as clams go, luck is part of the equation. You need a good stable system. You need good handling and care, you need qt, and you need a good source. Then comes the luck.
My very first clam was a crocea I got at a frag swap. Was about 6" and I had it almost 10 years. Loved that clam.
After that, I tried maximas from LFS that made it only a few months (they were tiny 1-2").
I tried a 6" maxima from PEA at a frag swap. Lasted 6 months (no blame on them at all, just facts).
My derasas were from a lfs (lived a long time till tore itself), a frag swap (lived a bit over a year - eaten by snail) and one over live sale I think Cherry Corals (lived a few months - lots of movement on my tanks though).
I have had squammies from lfs (died unknown reason), and online (killed by same dumb snail as derasa), and one live sale that did not make it too long either.
Maxima from frag swap in Chicago that I had for almost 5 years (was 4" at purchase) and then I got pyramid snails.
Currently have a giga (from ORA), Squammie and two crocea from Your Reef as wysiwyg and after qt they are doing great after 8 months with my giga.

I had others, but off the top of my head this is what I remember. I do not blame vendors for any deaths of clams as they all were in my systems for over 1 month prior to death. Just stating what the op asked for.

So far I call my successful clams: my 10 year crocea and my 5 year maxima (as it was infestation that caused death, not me or my tank). I also got some tiny maximas to grow over a year from 1" to 2.5" before dying. Vacation can be hard on my tanks.