Help. Fish dying one by one

[awwinterfall]

That is what is odd. They didn't show any spots except on the powderblue tang, which was the first to get sick.
They breath a little heavy and loose balance.

My logic tells me that it seems to me the fish are suffering from ammonia toxicity and possible low oxygen due to a heavily overstocked QT. Correct ammonia and O2 first to keep the fish alive then worry about copper concentrations. I didn't see any ich or velvet in any of the videos.

 

[Dine]

NOT blaming Humblefish. Just really stumped. Thinking it may be the frozen food.

Tank is 100 gallon QT. They got sick in display tank so I moved them to QT. They look crowded because they gather to same area. Every time one fish gets sick, then another,

So far the saddleback, majestic, powder blue and semilarvatus died.

@Humblefish , the semilarvatus had been with me in the display for 3 years.

Now gem tang is about to die. bannerfish are starting to breath heavy and listless.

I don't think its ammonia because if it was, all fish would be dying or gasping at same time. also, problem started in display.

I know you don’t think it’s ammonia but did you test?

 

[Humblefish]

Thinking it may be the frozen food.

What kind of frozen food? Also, I was thinking of two diseases which can linger indefinitely in a tank and cause the issues you are describing:

Uronema: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/

Trichodina: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/trichodina.653627/

For both diseases, a 45 minute formalin or 30 minute H2O2 bath will provide the quickest relief. Post bath, I would transfer the fish into a sterile QT, and treat with either Chloroquine or copper + metronidazole for good measure.

I am very sorry this is happening to you (and the fish.) The new fish that are in the tanks your fish were housed in continue to show no symptoms of disease, but I have suspended shipments until I am 100% sure my fish were not the cause of this.

 

[don_chuwish]

How are you measuring copper levels? If not the Hanna checker then you could easily have gone too high. Just a thought! There's no harm in reducing the copper levels quickly, so a good size water change may be in order (for other reasons mentioned by others as well).

 

[Nano man]

dang man so sad to read this!
Sometimes a crash is unavoidable.
Hopefully you find out what the cause was.

 

[awwinterfall]

Hi,

I just wanted to update.

Copper did nothing.

acriflavine worked a little, but the disease came back.

Currently, I tried hypo and all fish are back eating within a day.
How long should they stay in hypo? How would I know it worked?
Gem tang and heniochus are still alive.


Also, I am NOT blaming Humblefish.
I only did tank transfer for the semilarvatus and gem tang.
So, although they have been with me for 3 years, they could have been asymptomatic carriers.


@Humblefish , the frozen food are larrys reef frenzy.

 

[4FordFamily]

Hypo will not cute velvet.

How were you testing copper?

I would add metro and copper for 14 days then transfer to a completely new QT or metro for 14 and copper for 30 in same QT. This treats most parasites but namely brook and velvet which may be at play here.

 

[awwinterfall]

Hi Humblefish,

Thanks for the suggestion. I am sorry you had to stop your shipments and apologize for the disruption of your business.
Especially when it is not proven that your shipment was the cause.

Do you think my fish are under attack by protozoa, bacteria or virus?

What kind of frozen food? Also, I was thinking of two diseases which can linger indefinitely in a tank and cause the issues you are describing:

Uronema: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/uronema-marinum.247940/

Trichodina: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/trichodina.653627/

For both diseases, a 45 minute formalin or 30 minute H2O2 bath will provide the quickest relief. Post bath, I would transfer the fish into a sterile QT, and treat with either Chloroquine or copper + metronidazole for good measure.

I am very sorry this is happening to you (and the fish.) The new fish that are in the tanks your fish were housed in continue to show no symptoms of disease, but I have suspended shipments until I am 100% sure my fish were not the cause of this.

 

[awwinterfall]

I didn't test but used cupramine as directed on the bottle.
I just bought copper powder and the hanna test kit on amazon.

Hypo will not cute velvet.

How were you testing copper?

I would add metro and copper for 14 days then transfer to a completely new QT or metro for 14 and copper for 30 in same QT. This treats most parasites but namely brook and velvet which may be at play here.

 

[vetteguy53081]

What size tank is this and age of tank?
Looks very barebone and well populated.
What filtration and Tell us about your chemistry.
temp - ?
Salinity - ?
Ammonia - ?
PH - ?
Nitrate - ?
Type of water ( tap, RO or ) ?

WATER CHANGE IS A MUST AS IS ADDITION OF CARBON (but carbon after treatment )

 

[Humblefish]

Currently, I tried hypo and all fish are back eating within a day.
How long should they stay in hypo? How would I know it worked?
Gem tang and heniochus are still alive.

Hypo only works quickly on flukes. After a week in hypo the eggs are damaged and that should be the end of it. However, hypo will also mask symptoms of velvet, brook, uronema and trichodina - so it could also be one of those.

Thanks for the suggestion. I am sorry you had to stop your shipments and apologize for the disruption of your business.
Especially when it is not proven that your shipment was the cause.

Shipyouraquatics had already advised me to discontinue shipping during the holidays, so no biggie. All fish on my end continue to do fine.

 

[awwinterfall]

I bleached the display. Ready to dry it and start over.


After hypo, all fish are currently begging and eating.

Can I assume they are clean after 30 days of hypo? Thinking about 14 days of copper/metro after hypo and transfer to display.

 

[awwinterfall]

But WHY copper didn't work at all?

All literature points to copper working for velvet and acriflavine for brook.
Am I dealing with a resistant strain?

 

[Humblefish]

I bleached the display. Ready to dry it and start over.


After hypo, all fish are currently begging and eating.

Can I assume they are clean after 30 days of hypo? Thinking about 14 days of copper/metro after hypo and transfer to display.

14 days of copper/metro after hypo would eliminate the other pathogens I mentioned above. I'm very sorry you are having to go through this. I wish I knew for sure what was wrong.

 

[TheShrimpNibbler]

I didn't test but used cupramine as directed on the bottle.
I just bought copper powder and the hanna test kit on amazon.

Cupramine does not dose at the levels stated on the bottle. Test, test, and then test again when using copper. I have added the stated doses of cupramine and ended up with about .2 mg higher than I should have. And please test the ammonia.

 

[awwinterfall]

So if hypo is masking, copper and acriflavine are not working.
What should I do?

Hypo only works quickly on flukes. After a week in hypo the eggs are damaged and that should be the end of it. However, hypo will also mask symptoms of velvet, brook, uronema and trichodina - so it could also be one of those.



Shipyouraquatics had already advised me to discontinue shipping during the holidays, so no biggie. All fish on my end continue to do fine.

 

[awwinterfall]

Currently there is no med. Water changed. Only hypo.

 

[awwinterfall]

ammonia zero ppm

Cupramine does not dose at the levels stated on the bottle. Test, test, and then test again when using copper. I have added the stated doses of cupramine and ended up with about .2 mg higher than I should have. And please test the ammonia.

 

[Humblefish]

But WHY copper didn't work at all?

All literature points to copper working for velvet and acriflavine for brook.
Am I dealing with a resistant strain?

A resistant strain is always possible. However, a ciliate that copper does not fully treat (e.g. Brook, Uronema, Trichodina) is more probable. (This is assuming flukes are not the cause.) I've seen both Uronema and Trichodina cause the symptoms you are describing. With uronema, the red sores typically only show up on chromis, anthias, angels and butterflies. More resistant fish have heavy breathing, lack of appetite, etc. because the parasites primarily attack the gills (of these fish).

About a year ago I got in a batch of chromis w/uronema that NOTHING slowed down. I tried metro, formalin, Chloroquine, acriflavine, FW dips. I euthanized the remaining chromis and bleached all my QTs after that. I'll never order from that particular wholesaler ever again lol

 

[awwinterfall]

So should I start over and just keep these fish separate from other fish for life?