Help! I think I have Ich

[katrinatimm02]

I watch my tank quite closely as I’m sure most people do and a few nights ago I noticed a few faded white spots on my clown fish, only really noticeable in certain lighting. I’ve kept an eye on in and now it seems to have gotten worse and I’ve began noticing spots on my other fish. I am almost positive it is Ich as my royal gramma has started to rub against rocks.

The tank has been set up for over 6 months and I’ve never had issues before. I don’t have a quarantine tank ready so I really need help.

What do I do immediately to fix this? It is 10pm so I won’t be able to get copper or supplies till tomorrow.

Two gladiator clowns
One fairy wrasse
One royal gramma
One firefish

It is a 50 gallon tank. And I do have corals and inverts.

 

[LPS Bum]

In tank ich treatments are the unicorn of the hobby. They typically don’t work

You can run UV and dose hydrogen peroxide, per the Humblefish recommendations. Some people have had success with that method.

If you have 2 buckets, 2 heaters, 2 air stone/pumps and 2 nets you can remove the fish and follow the tank transfer method. The goal being to outrun the ich parasite.

 

[Flex714]

I used ozone and 2 cleaner shrimp

 

[vetteguy53081]

I watch my tank quite closely as I’m sure most people do and a few nights ago I noticed a few faded white spots on my clown fish, only really noticeable in certain lighting. I’ve kept an eye on in and now it seems to have gotten worse and I’ve began noticing spots on my other fish. I am almost positive it is Ich as my royal gramma has started to rub against rocks.

The tank has been set up for over 6 months and I’ve never had issues before. I don’t have a quarantine tank ready so I really need help.

What do I do immediately to fix this? It is 10pm so I won’t be able to get copper or supplies till tomorrow.

Two gladiator clowns
One fairy wrasse
One royal gramma
One firefish

It is a 50 gallon tank. And I do have corals and inverts.

Please post pics or video under white light intensity for best assessment and recommendations. Can be bacterial lesions also. UV does Not erase ich but addresses what passes through the unit and peroxide is an oxidizer and MAY help with early stage- noy established protozoans

 

[katrinatimm02]

In tank ich treatments are the unicorn of the hobby. They typically don’t work

You can run UV and dose hydrogen peroxide, per the Humblefish recommendations. Some people have had success with that method.

If you have 2 buckets, 2 heaters, 2 air stone/pumps and 2 nets you can remove the fish and follow the tank transfer method. The goal being to outrun the ich parasite.

I definitely have these things and can do this but how does this work when there is no filtration or biomedia to keep a cycle? I can use water from the dt and new saltwater but I’d be worried that it doesn’t have time to cycle. My buckets are also only 5 gallons each I typically use them for water changes

 

[LPS Bum]

I definitely have these things and can do this but how does this work when there is no filtration or biomedia to keep a cycle? I can use water from the dt and new saltwater but I’d be worried that it doesn’t have time to cycle. My buckets are also only 5 gallons each I typically use them for water changes

Humblefish has a good video on this. You can find it on YouTube.

Essentially you’re going to keep the fish in the bucket for 36 hours before moving them to the next bucket. They’ll be fine with aeration and heat. You can use Prime or Amquel to curb ammonia build up.

As soon as you move them to bucket 2, you’ll drain and sterilize bucket 1. Repeat the process for 2 weeks. You can also add two 150 ppm H202 baths 6 days apart in case you have Velvet or Brook.

 

[katrinatimm02]

Please post pics or video under white light intensity for best assessment and recommendations. Can be bacterial lesions also. UV does Not erase ich but addresses what passes through the unit and peroxide is an oxidizer and MAY help with early stage- noy established protozoans

It is so hard to get photos of them I’ve been trying all afternoon but they move to much to focus. I found it wasn’t as easy to see them in white light. Here is a photo of my clown you can see some of them and my royal gramma from tonight. You can see some spots on her head but there’s quite a few on her tail fin not seen in the photo

 

[vetteguy53081]

It is so hard to get photos of them I’ve been trying all afternoon but they move to much to focus. I found it wasn’t as easy to see them in white light. Here is a photo of my clown you can see some of them and my royal gramma from tonight. You can see some spots on her head but there’s quite a few on her tail fin not seen in the photo

The gramma is impossible to see but the clown does work and it is Secondary bacterial lesions in lieu of ich. Usually mucus starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Start with a prolonged 60 minute bath of ruby rally pro then at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the treatment, the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
Since a formalin solution is often not available for use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective but now harder to find) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.

 

[katrinatimm02]

The gramma is impossible to see but the clown does work and it is Secondary bacterial lesions in lieu of ich. Usually mucus starts at the facial area as well as gills and spreads across the body producing lesions as it progresses often confused with ich and can turn into secondary bacteria. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Start with a prolonged 60 minute bath of ruby rally pro then at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the treatment, the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
Since a formalin solution is often not available for use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective but now harder to find) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.

Do you know this for certain? I know it’s not a great photo, I would be so disappointed if I treated for something else and then lost them all. Any trusting links to provide on how to properly treat it if it is that? Also what causes that?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Do you know this for certain? I know it’s not a great photo, I would be so disappointed if I treated for something else and then lost them all. Any trusting links to provide on how to properly treat it if it is that? Also what causes that?

Its often associated with brooklynella clown disease and ive seen this for many years. Ruby rally pro is very safe and can even be used with coral and inverts.

 

[katrinatimm02]

Its often associated with brooklynella clown disease and ive seen this for many years. Ruby rally pro is very safe and can even be used with coral and inverts.

So are you recommending I put this in my DT?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

It is so hard to get photos of them I’ve been trying all afternoon but they move to much to focus. I found it wasn’t as easy to see them in white light. Here is a photo of my clown you can see some of them and my royal gramma from tonight. You can see some spots on her head but there’s quite a few on her tail fin not seen in the photo

The clownfish seems to have ich, I can't see anything on the gramma.

I don't think you should use the Tank Transfer Method (TTM) because you need to have to then have a ich-free tank to move all the fish into. If you have such a tank, it is much better to just move the fish in there and treat with coppersafe or hyposalinity as opposed to TTM.

Don't use peroxide unless you have test strips for it. The dose needed to kill ich is too close to that which will kill invertebrates (especially shrimp). The problem with peroxide is that the needed dose changes depending on the amount of organics in the water, and that changes over time as you use peroxide. So - you need a high dose at first because some of the peroxide is getting used up on the organics. Then, when those are used up, more reactive peroxide is leftover, so you need to test for that and add less.

There is also the "ich management" method you might use if you absolutely cannot treat the fish in another tank:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-management.1028274/

 

[katrinatimm02]

The clownfish seems to have ich, I can't see anything on the gramma.

I don't think you should use the Tank Transfer Method (TTM) because you need to have to then have a ich-free tank to move all the fish into. If you have such a tank, it is much better to just move the fish in there and treat with coppersafe or hyposalinity as opposed to TTM.

Don't use peroxide unless you have test strips for it. The dose needed to kill ich is too close to that which will kill invertebrates (especially shrimp). The problem with peroxide is that the needed dose changes depending on the amount of organics in the water, and that changes over time as you use peroxide. So - you need a high dose at first because some of the peroxide is getting used up on the organics. Then, when those are used up, more reactive peroxide is leftover, so you need to test for that and add less.

There is also the "ich management" method you might use if you absolutely cannot treat the fish in another tank:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-management.1028274/

Yeah the pic of the gramma is really poor. Here is a pic of my firefish this morning before they woke up. The firefish you can really see it on her tail.

So here’s my dilemma, I recently got a waterbox 110.4 which is currently cycling and expected to transfer them over in a few weeks. Obviously that won’t be happening until this is resolved. I do not have another tank for quarantine. My only option would be to use the current cycled 50 gallon they are in as a quarantine. Would I be able to take out all my coral and Inverts and put it in the cycling tank to avoid the copper killing them? I’d then obviously remove all the rocks and dispose of the sand in their current tank

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

That’s a tough call. You might be able to do TTM and move the fish to the new water box, but if anything goes wrong, you’ll then have ich in there. Also, you would have to leave the invertebrates in the original tank fishless for 60 days.
Another option would be to move all invertebrates to the waterbox and use hyposalinity on the fish in their current tank for 30 days. Then, bring the fish out of hypo and hold them for another 14 to 30 days and then move them to the waterbox.

 

[katrinatimm02]

That’s a tough call. You might be able to do TTM and move the fish to the new water box, but if anything goes wrong, you’ll then have ich in there. Also, you would have to leave the invertebrates in the original tank fishless for 60 days.
Another option would be to move all invertebrates to the waterbox and use hyposalinity on the fish in their current tank for 30 days. Then, bring the fish out of hypo and hold them for another 14 to 30 days and then move them to the waterbox.

This is what I was thinking as well, was move the corals and inverts to the waterbox and use the current tank the fish are in to remove the ich, would the corals potentially bring ich into the new tank though? I mean either way they will be fish less for 30-60 days so it should die off. If I do hyposalinity can the rocks and sand stay in the 50 gallon?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

This is what I was thinking as well, was move the corals and inverts to the waterbox and use the current tank the fish are in to remove the ich, would the corals potentially bring ich into the new tank though? I mean either way they will be fish less for 30-60 days so it should die off. If I do hyposalinity can the rocks and sand stay in the 50 gallon?

Yes, corals, sand and rock can transfer the resting stage of ich (the tomonts). However, these die off without a fish host in 45 to 60 days.

Hyposalinity is better than copper in this case because the rock will still have beneficial bacteria on it afterwards, and can be used in your coral tank. The only thing to be mindful of is is the rock has a LOT of algae on it, that will die off during hypo, and could possible foul the water.

 

[katrinatimm02]

Yes, corals, sand and rock can transfer the resting stage of ich (the tomonts). However, these die off without a fish host in 45 to 60 days.

Hyposalinity is better than copper in this case because the rock will still have beneficial bacteria on it afterwards, and can be used in your coral tank. The only thing to be mindful of is is the rock has a LOT of algae on it, that will die off during hypo, and could possible foul the water.

Hi Jay, I really appreciate all your help. I went to my LFS just to confirm best next steps also. I did decide to move all inverts and corals to the new waterbox, it will stay fallow for 60 days atleast to ensure all die off.

I left some of my live rock in the current 50 with the plan to throw them out after. Canada doesn’t have copper safe so I ordered it online with expedited shipping it is set to come Wednesday (Jan 29th) and bought some copper testing also. The LFS recommend trying rid ich plus in the meantime just to aid them in fighting it off before the copper shows up, but did note it works better for freshwater.

I will use carbon in the tank for 24 hours before dosing copper to remove any leftover rid ich ahead of time. All fish are still active and eating well, so that made me happy. Hoping to kick this in the butt quickly with no loss.