Help me choose a return pump

[Scott.h]

I'm putting together a 90 gallon (48x18x25) in the basement. The sump/fuge is made from a 70 gallon. It will be plumbed to a work room, so noise, heat, and power consumption isn't necessarily a deciding factor. It's plumbed in 3/4"(since most outlets are). It goes straight up 6.5 feet, straight over 12 feet, and back down 2 feet before looping back in. I'm seeing many mixed review with my original choice that I won't yet mention, and money is a factor. Also I'm not running an apex, although someday soon I may. I'm thinking I'd like to be 900ish.. Maybe a little more.. the same as my other tank according to my calculations.

For reference my other tank is a 75 which goes through the floor to the basement. 10 foot of vertical and 4 foot of horizontal. I have a danner mag drive 24 running wide open. I feel flow is perfect, but noise is pretty bad. Luckily it's in the basement.

 

[bif24701]

RO Varios pumps are great! DC, slow start, APEX Ready, controlable. For that amount of head I would use 1 1/4" PVC and the Varios-6 pump.

 

[Scott.h]

RO Varios pumps are great! DC, slow start, APEX Ready, controlable. For that amount of head I would use 1 1/4" PVC and the Varios-6 pump.

I was considering that pump also but looking at their chart it looks like it might not be enough flow with my length of pipe? I'm figuring I'd only be at about 500..

 

[MaddyP]

I was considering that pump also but looking at their chart it looks like it might not be enough flow with my length of pipe? I'm figuring I'd only be at about 500..

It really depends on the flow you desire through your sump. I prefer lower flow for several reasons (increased contact time with equipment and fuge). At 500 gph, you have right at 3x flow through the sump. I would question whether the Varios 6 could overcome the head, although I don't have experience with this pump.

 

[gar732]

Yeah those dc pumps aren't pressure rated so they don't make a good choice for basement sumps. Look into reeflo pumps, I believe they are supposed to be pretty good pumps and will handle the pressure without issue.

 

[bif24701]

I was considering that pump also but looking at their chart it looks like it might not be enough flow with my length of pipe? I'm figuring I'd only be at about 500..

That's just an estimate. If you use larger diameter PVC like 1 1/4" or even 1 1/2" it will reduce the head pressure loss.

 

[bif24701]

Did you calculate your head loss? Try it with the larger size PVC and you will see what I mean.

 

[Drakonis]

Alot goes into that calculation with the length and beds your running. it will take a pretty healthy pump to get 900 at the tank regardless of brand etc. with that kind of head pressure id stay at what the pump is plumbed for as larger diameter would increase head pressure do to water weight. i think in your situation id consider impeller design, with that much head pressure there will be advantages in a design that has less "slip" and isnt over speed trying to compensate. by your 500 gph estimate your expecting 10ft head pressure thats pushing it for alot of pumps im not sure what your lookin to spend on a pump but i have an idea what that flow will require

 

[Scott.h]

I suppose the amount of passes per hour through the sump would be a debate in itself. My thoughts were danner mag drive 18. Other thoughts was the ecotech m1. Both plumbed in 3/4 so I've already plumbed everything. The m1 is pretty pricy and doesn't come with the correct fittings. Some complain about the flow calculations being light, so for the price I question it.. Spend that much and not get enough flow, and I don't want to spend more for the L1.

 

[Scott.h]

I know a mag drive 24 will do it. Probably overkill, but it's 215 bucks, and I feel they are good pumps. Currently have 3 danners, but I know they suck the juice, not battery back up ready, and loud. I'm finishing off the rest of the basement and two 24s is just a lot of noise to deal with, even in another room.

 

[bif24701]

Alot goes into that calculation with the length and beds your running. it will take a pretty healthy pump to get 900 at the tank regardless of brand etc. with that kind of head pressure id stay at what the pump is plumbed for as larger diameter would increase head pressure do to water weight.

That's not correct.

Like I said, just put it into the head loss calculator and you will see exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[bif24701]

Just take a look here at how the diameter affects head pressure loss, the pump chosen doesn't matter. I'm just showing what difference the size of the PVC makes.

3/4"

1.25"

1.50"

 

[Scott.h]

How would that come into play if the pump was only a 3/4 outlet?

 

[bif24701]

The Mag 18 is similar to the Varios-6 so you can make a reasonable comparison. As you can see the Varios-6 with you configuration can give you the flow you want if you use the correct PVC.

With 3/4" you are going to have a lot of head loss no matter what pump you use so I would consider upgrading any way. You could use a Iwaki pressure rated pump but they are more costly and external.

Hope this helps.

 

[Scott.h]

How does the math figure with the mag 24 and my set up? Actually where do you find the calculator?

 

[Drakonis]

That's not correct.

Like I said, just put it into the head loss calculator and you will see exactly what I'm talking about.

That depends on the pump, subjective info on pipe dia

 

[bif24701]

That depends on the pump, subjective info on pipe dia

Actually the pump really doesn't matter at all.

And it's not subjective at all, it's Math. That's why it's called a calculator.

 

[bif24701]

How does the math figure with the mag 24 and my set up? Actually where do you find the calculator?

http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php/head-loss-calculator


.75"

As you can see the pump doesn't matter nearly as much as your PVC line.

Good luck!

 

[Drakonis]

Uhh yea pump does matter based on its head/gph curve. expecially here with 9 to 10 ft of head pressure

 

[Scott.h]

http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php/head-loss-calculator


.75"

As you can see the pump doesn't matter nearly as much as your PVC line.

Good luck!

would at some point the pump not be able to push a wide volume uphill to a fault?