Help me choose which LED for coral "farm"

[PDR]

I have been in contact with several companies, read countless threads and I am still having a really hard time deciding between t5's and led's for my coral "farm" project.

I really prefer to stick to one or the other and not do a hybrid type fixture (I would consider reef brights if I went t5, just not kessil/radion and t5). I have only ever grown coral with LED's (nanobox and Kessil) and have almost no experience with T5.

Some information on the project:
- At this point, I am only planning on growing soft coral but may expand to lps later on. Shadowing is not a huge concern, but still something to consider.
- If I went with LED's I would be purchasing either Radion G4 pro's or Kessil A360WE's. I am open to other LED options.
- I plan to keep this fairly low tech, so having a ton of customizability is not that important.

Since this will be strictly for growing coral I am only interested in coral growth and coral coloration.

I have read where people say both LED's and T5's give better coloration. Which is it? and I don't mean how the LED's make it "pop", but the actual coloration of the coral.

I do have a budget with this build so I really prefer to keep things reasonable, but I am willing to fork out additional money up front in order to get decent lighting.

T5 concerns:
- The ongoing cost of bulb replacement and power consumption, especially as I scale up.
- Lack of controllability (also a pro in my book).
- I am concerned about the heat as well. Do T5's put off a lot of heat?

LED concerns:
- The ability to grow coral at a reasonable rate.
- The effect on coral coloration.

To boil it all down, I'm trying to determine if the growth and color with T5's are worth the extra ongoing cost.

 

[BoomCorals]

T5 are not really that much more heat nor energy consumption. But soft coral also aren’t as picky about lights. If I was in your position id go T5 or Halide as that would give me the ability to get the best colors from any type of coral.

 

[Daniel Waters]

I really prefer to stick to one or the other and not do a hybrid type fixture (I would consider reef brights if I went t5, just not kessil/radion and t5). I have only ever grown coral with LED's (nanobox and Kessil) and have almost no experience with T5.

Some information on the project:
- At this point, I am only planning on growing soft coral but may expand to lps later on. Shadowing is not a huge concern, but still something to consider.
- If I went with LED's I would be purchasing either Radion G4 pro's or Kessil A360WE's.
- I plan to keep this fairly low tech, so having a ton of customizability is not that important.

Since this will be strictly for growing coral I am only interested in coral growth and coral coloration.

I have read where people say both LED's and T5's give better coloration. Which is it? and I don't mean how the LED's make it "pop", but the actual coloration of the coral.

I do have a budget with this build so I really prefer to keep things reasonable, but I am willing to fork out additional money up front in order to get decent lighting.

T5 concerns:
- The ongoing cost of bulb replacement and power consumption, especially as I scale up.
- Lack of controllability (also a pro in my book).
- I am concerned about the heat as well. Do T5's put off a lot of heat?

LED concerns:
- The ability to grow coral at a reasonable rate.
- The effect on coral coloration.

To boil it all down, I'm trying to determine if the growth and color with T5's are worth the extra ongoing cost.

It's really going to depend on what type of footprint you are lighting. Are you going to have just one tank or multiple tanks to light? Is electricity cost a concern? Is the room going to be air conditioned so that any extra heat from the T5's isn't going to be an issue (which T5's don't put out a lot of heat anyway)?

Honestly, soft corals aren't going to need a lot of light. Whatever LED unit you get, you can mount them pretty high and maximize the spread. If you go with T5 bulbs, you're not going to need an 8 bulb fixture (but you may need T5 bulbs spaced out appropriately depending on your tank dimensions). Thus, your ongoing costs from T5's may not be near as much as you might be thinking.

Since you are not familiar with T5's, I would say stick to LED's (not that T5's are hard or anything). Softies look great under LED's anyway, and if you are going to be selling these corals to people, using similar lighting to what most people are running would be useful. Do you really want to be taking a picture of a zoa under T5 lights and have to explain to the customer that the zoa looks very different in his tank versus your pictures online because you used a blue plus and coral plus bulb combination in your pictures and he is running his LED's at x,y,z setting. Not to mention the coral is likely to color up very differently under the customer's LED lights versus the T5 lights you had it under.

But if you are truly serious about getting into the business, you could always try both types of lights on your tank (T5 on one tank or one side, LED on the other tank or other side). You can come to your own conclusion of what works best. I suspect some corals might grow and color up better under T5's and I suspect some you might not even tell a difference.

 

[dz6t]

Is this coral farm a real business for profit? If that is the case, you can use cheap eBay blackbox for soft coral.

 

[jda]

I would focus on the size of your farm. How larger are we talking? Do not underestimate the ability of reflectors to cover large area without too much electricity.

My choice on a softie/LPS farm would be 150w HQI. ...low electrical cost, less bulb replacement than T5s, larger areas covered, low heat and the best performance.

You might need some reef brites or a single panel to take some greasy pictures that lots of noobies want to see, but otherwise, the MH will out color and outgrow the LED.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Many roads lead to Rome... I don't want to come off as disrespectful, as there are very few scenarios that have been investigated using scientific protocols. Here are some results of experiments I've conducted:
1. In a collaborative effort with BuildMyLED years ago, differences in growth rates of Porites corals were not statistically significant when exposed to 4 distinct light fields (ranging from 20,000K to full-spectrum.)
2. Using a PAM fluorometer to judge rates of photosynthesis, we found a soft coral (Sinularia abrupta) required more light than some of its stony counterparts (probably due to thick tissues and self-shading of zooxanthellae.)
3. Rates of photosynthesis can be improved by increasing alkalinity and water motion, while light intensity remains the same (at least in Porites corals.)
4. Not really an experiment - my power bill in Hawaii dropped from $400 per month to $135 when I switched to LEDs - due to lighting/cooling costs.
5. A LED fixture mounted on a moving light rail might be your answer to coverage.
I assume this is a for-profit endeavor. I managed the cultivation portion of a commercial coral farm back in the '90s but had no input on the business plan (which changed every 6 months by the owners, much to my chagrin.) It's a tough business then, even so more today given the number of coral farms around. Look at your projected sales per square foot, power and cooling costs, etc., etc. With that said, my job at the coral farm was the most enjoyable of any I ever had!

 

[mcarroll]

I am still having a really hard time deciding between t5's and led's for my coral farm project.

T5 concerns:
- The ongoing cost of bulb replacement and power consumption, especially as I scale up.
- Lack of controllability (also a pro in my book).
- I am concerned about the heat as well. Do T5's put off a lot of heat?

LED concerns:
- The ability to grow coral at a reasonable rate.
- The effect on coral coloration.

For fun, let's be agnostic with concerns:

• The ongoing cost of bulb replacement and power consumption, especially as I scale up.
  • You're right that ongoing costs kind spoil the deal with T5's.
• Lack of controllability (also a pro in my book).
  • It's not too hard to opt-out of controllability.
• I am concerned about the heat as well. Do T5's put off a lot of heat?
  • Heat is 1:1 with watts. If that's a real priority (maybe it's a non-air conditioned space in a hot latitude) then it'll be a lot easier to use less watts with LED.
• The ability to grow coral at a reasonable rate.
  • Thankfully that's not an problem for LED's or T5's.
• The effect on coral coloration.
  • Of the factors that contribute to color, light is one of the easiest ones to satisfy IMO.
  • Stick with a source that puts off about 20,000K, as most LED systems do.
  • Hit the light levels known to work – @Dana Riddle has written on this in articles and posts pretty extensively.
  • Once you have light down-pat, look to all other factors that matter more IMO and are harder targets to hit – flow, nutrients, chemistry and stability across the whole system.

You should feel like you have a wide latitude to make a safe/correct lighting choice, IMO. I see no reason to look at older technology for a project like this.

From strips to spotlights, from DIY to brand names, there are a TON of great options at every conceivable price-point.

IMO your choice ought to be between LED strips and LED spotlights (or combo) rather than a choice between old-tech "strips" and modern spotlights.

That choice might come down to the practical considerations of the installation.

To me, the answer to your list of concerns adds up to this:
Consider dumb LED strips.

Like Current's TrueLumen Pro's (use like T5) or high-powered strips like those from Hamilton, Reefbrite and others (much stronger than T5, possibly fitted with lenses that will give you different deployment options).

There are a wide range of price points....any can be used.

Talk to the vendor you decide on and get their recommendation on how to deploy them.

And for Pete's sake, use a light meter when you're doing the setup. *Any* light meter is better than no light meter.

(even a lux meter app is better than guessing, but a $10-20 handheld lux meter should be your minimum)

 

[oreo54]

http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/award-winning-coral-aquaculture-business-plan-4941/

http://saltwatersmarts.com/TidalGardens-BusinessPlan_SWS.pdf

 

[dz6t]

I have been farming coral for over a decade. What I learned is that the cost of light fixtures is a small part of the total expanse of raising coral, regardless what type of coral you are farming. The utility cost out weights the cost of bulb change. Cooling in Summer is a big expanse even in New England area.
Saving electricity is very important. Armed with PAR meter, I basically replaced all metal halide with LED and t5. In terms of growth, there is no statistically difference under different type of lighting as long as the PAR and photo period are similar.

I yet to find metal halide surpass led in terms of color, in fact, properly tuned LED give better color in general than metal halide. Especially anemone, lps.

I also find puck style led are very poor in farming coral due to their spot light effect. One of the popular spot light can even damage arco colonies by excessive shading.

 

[Breadman03]

I'm not the expert, but it seems to me that most of the farmers that have put their info out there are using LED. I'm running Radions at home, but would probably choose a black box type of LED for commercial use. Controlling costs is a big part of running a business and there is no need to pay for the aesthetics of the fixture when nobody that matters will ever see the fixture.

 

[PDR]

Thank you for all the replies and a special thanks to everyone who took the time to reply to my PM's. Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. I have spent 20+ hours researching T5 and LED and have finally decided to go LED, mainly due to cost.

Just to clarify some things. Yes, this is a for-profit endeavor, but I am starting small. I really should have called it a grow out tank vs a farm at this stage.

Now that I have decided on LED I am having trouble deciding on which fixtures to go with. I really like the idea of having multiple "pucks" so I can add/subtract as needed, and if one goes out it's not like my entire lighting system is down.

I don't really trust the spectrum on Chinese black boxes so I would prefer to avoid those. I don't need a ton of power or features. One of the reasons I like Kessil so much is how simple they are. They are basically idiot proof. I have also been looking at the AI Prime HD but am concerned with how they will hold up over time. Radions are nice but really overpowered for my application.

What other options should I consider?

 

[mcarroll]

Just what I mentioned earlier...

Consider dumb LED strips.

Like Current's TrueLumen Pro's (use like T5) or high-powered strips like those from Hamilton, Reefbrite and others (much stronger than T5, possibly fitted with lenses that will give you different deployment options).

There are a wide range of price points....any can be used.

Talk to the vendor you decide on and get their recommendation on how to deploy them.

And for Pete's sake, use a light meter when you're doing the setup. *Any* light meter is better than no light meter.

(even a lux meter app is better than guessing, but a $10-20 handheld lux meter should be your minimum)

Keep us up to date as this develops!

 

[oreo54]

Thank you for all the replies and a special thanks to everyone who took the time to reply to my PM's. Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. I have spent 20+ hours researching T5 and LED and have finally decided to go LED, mainly due to cost.

Just to clarify some things. Yes, this is a for-profit endeavor, but I am starting small. I really should have called it a grow out tank vs a farm at this stage.

Now that I have decided on LED I am having trouble deciding on which fixtures to go with. I really like the idea of having multiple "pucks" so I can add/subtract as needed, and if one goes out it's not like my entire lighting system is down.

I don't really trust the spectrum on Chinese black boxes so I would prefer to avoid those. I don't need a ton of power or features. One of the reasons I like Kessil so much is how simple they are. They are basically idiot proof. I have also been looking at the AI Prime HD but am concerned with how they will hold up over time. Radions are nice but really overpowered for my application.

What other options should I consider?

just go Orphek light bars...

can't get more idiot proof than on/off.. add one subtract 1

 

[PDR]

Just what I mentioned earlier...
Keep us up to date as this develops!

I have considered the light bar option but the ones I have found seem to be either really expensive (for the number I would need) or really lacking in par/spectrum.

just go Orphek light bars...can't get more idiot proof than on/off.. add one subtract 1

I was actually considering the atlantik v4, but it was a little out of my price range. I can't seem to find too much info on the light bars. Do you know where these can be purchased?

 

[oreo54]

Orphek direct..
https://orphek.com/or-bar-led-light/

 

[jda]

How big of areas are you trying to farm? This will matter a bunch? A 24x48" farm is a lot easier than a pile of 48x96" raceways that might need a LOT of panels. I am guessing smaller if you think that Radions are too powerful - some people use 3x xr30s to replace a single Halide to cover a large area - they will not spread and cover as well as you think.

If it is a small area, then pucks/point-source might be OK. If it is large, then you need to rethink reflectors, IMO.

Lastly, what are you wanting to farm? A variety? Just Z&P? Just SPS? This could help drive your choice.

 

[PDR]

Orphek direct..
https://orphek.com/or-bar-led-light/

Thanks for the link. I am really liking these...

How big of areas are you trying to farm? This will matter a bunch? A 24x48" farm is a lot easier than a pile of 48x96" raceways that might need a LOT of panels. I am guessing smaller if you think that Radions are too powerful - some people use 3x xr30s to replace a single Halide to cover a large area - they will not spread and cover as well as you think.

If it is a small area, then pucks/point-source might be OK. If it is large, then you need to rethink reflectors, IMO.

Lastly, what are you wanting to farm? A variety? Just Z&P? Just SPS? This could help drive your choice.

My first grow out tank is 48"x24". I will be farming a variety of softies in this tank. Mainly zoas, mushrooms and various leathers. If I ever expand to lps or sps I will set up a separate system with lighting that is best suited for them.

 

[jda]

For softies in that tank, I would just get two of the nicer black boxes, raise them up way high and turn up the power. Maybe SB Reef Lights?

 

[PDR]

For softies in that tank, I would just get two of the nicer black boxes, raise them up way high and turn up the power. Maybe SB Reef Lights?

I was considering SB Reef Lights, but the more I research them the less I like them.

 

[mcarroll]

I have considered the light bar option but the ones I have found seem to be either really expensive (for the number I would need) or really lacking in par/spectrum.

As mentioned, they get used somewhat like T5s – use 4, 6 or 8 of them. Folks that complain about par issues usually tried to use just one strip for some reason.

Full spectrum is a gimmick. A combo of blue plus white LEDs is all it takes to grow bomb corals. But if you are sold on Red+Green+Blue+White=full spectrum or some other derivation, there is still really no shortage of options. GHL, Orphek as well as numerous Chinese vendors.