Help me feel a little less overwhelmed...

[vittpsu21]

Hey all,

For context, I am kind of a planner, not entirely sure that I am needing to do this yet, but definitely see a need for it on the horizon. So as such I am trying to do some research to understand my options, I read through quite a few of the pins, some easier for me to understand than others. All that to say I pre apologize if any of this is stupid, I am developer by trade not a chemist :P

I have a relatively new tank, I have kind of lost track of the time I actually got it up, but I believe we cycled somewhere around August 24-28th so not very long ago. At this point the tank consists of 4 soft coral, 2 clowns, and 1 royal gramma. I have been doing water changes weekly and tracking my results on testing prior to the water change (this week I still have not gotten to calcium, I use hannas for almost everything and the salifert takes a bit more concentration and time then I had available today! All of this is to say that my alk has been trending downwards (I attribute some of this to using instant ocean salt which I plan to switch off of after I run through my current stockpiles of it, unsure what I will use for this but open to suggestions though this was not the aim for this post).

System is 200G, 74 G sump, 10% weekly is done during WC

Calcium: (first week I measured) 450
Alk: week over week 7.8, 7.2, 6.9, and today 6.6
Mag: 1460 (first week I measured was today)
Ph: 8 and hasn't left it week over week
Nitrate: 18.5, 14.9, 15.1, 17.7 (I quickly saw how easy it was to overfeed here lol), 14.6
Phosphate: 0.07, 0.05, 0.03, 0.06

My question is really two fold as I do research, I think I have landed on really liking the B-Ionic 2 part as a solution, however open to reasons I should or should not land there. As Randys article mentioned too often people will end up combining multiple solutions to get one that works for them so not opposed to other ideas here also. How do you know when it is time or needed to actually dose 2 part? I know that when you dose one you must dose the other or it will impact PH, but what if one is falling while the other is steady? Sorry have truly been trying to do research on this, but I find the whole thing to just be a lot atm!

Thanks in advance

 

[Miami Reef]

My question is really two fold as I do research, I think I have landed on really liking the B-Ionic 2 part as a solution, however open to reasons I should or should not land there. As Randys article mentioned too often people will end up combining multiple solutions to get one that works for them so not opposed to other ideas here also. How do you know when it is time or needed to actually dose 2 part? I know that when you dose one you must dose the other or it will impact PH, but what if one is falling while the other is steady?

I don’t think Randy implied that.

ESV B ionic is a phenomenal, complete two-part dosing system. I highly recommend it. The sky is the limit; you never have to add other dosing solutions. Increasing the dose will always work to supply the demand.

You should dose equal parts of both solutions to maintain alkalinity. By default, this will also account for calcium consumption because calcification utilizes both in the same ratio.

Never dose two-parts to maintain pH. The primary parameter to base the dosage off of should always be alkalinity.

 

[Damage12]

Your tank is brand new. I would not be dosing anything right now. Just do your water changes and see how things go for the next 6 months as your tank matures. You have minimal fish and a few soft coral in a big tank. There is absolutely no need to start dosing any two part so soon in a new tank.

It takes time for your parameters to stabilize.

 

[Miami Reef]

Oh, I forgot to mention:

Any tank, no matter the age, can use an alkalinity dosing system to replenish it as needed. There’s no reason one must resort to water changes. We should dose the tank based on the alkalinity demand, not age.

 

[vittpsu21]

I do wonder if part of the alk fall on my tank, as it is brand new, is attributed to the salt I am using. Perhaps an approach would be to try new/better salt, see how the alk responds and then go from there? I figured the answer was something like what you said about doing what the tank wants not the age, but just as Damage12 said "my tank is new" is the same reason I felt like it was probably way too soon to be dosing despite seeing the numbers fall.

These responses from both of you are the exact things going on in my head as I see both sides of that coin if that makes sense? To be clear I am in no rush to dose unless I need to, but I am also not against dosing if I need to. I hope this makes sense. But this is part of why I feel overwhelmed.

I could also be misunderstanding his article Miami Reef, but I had read this in one of his postings, I did read a lot so I honestly could have just combined it in my head somehow.

https://www.reefedition.com/the-many-methods-for-supplementing-calcium-and-alkalinity/
Aquarists should also not be averse to combining two or more of these schemes. In some cases there are substantial synergies that can be obtained from combining systems. Some of the more common combinations are also discussed below.

 

[Miami Reef]

Aquarists should also not be averse to combining two or more of these schemes. In some cases there are substantial synergies that can be obtained from combining systems. Some of the more common combinations are also discussed below.

He mentioned that because it’s a common misconception that one absolutely must use one additive system. You can absolutely mix and match different systems depending on your needs, of course, but you also do not have to if your dosage can be scaled up over time.

It doesn’t matter how old the tank is. It doesn’t matter whether you add alkalinity through water changes vs a two part. Both are supplying alkalinity.

I think that advice is misguided because beginners sometimes don’t know how to properly dose a complete system, so the lazy and easy way out is telling them to just change water instead and hope they eventually learn how to dose in the future.

You seem well beyond that. You don’t need training wheels.

 

[vittpsu21]

He mentioned that because it’s a common misconception that one absolutely must use one additive system. You can always mix and match different systems depending on your needs, of course, but you also do not have to if your dosage can be scaled up over time.

It doesn’t matter how old the tank is. It doesn’t matter whether you add alkalinity through water changes vs a two part. Both are supplying alkalinity.

I think that advice is misguided because beginners sometimes don’t know how to properly dose a complete system, so the lazy and easy way out is telling them to just change water instead and hope they eventually learn in the future.

ok this makes sense at least, I am currently only microdosing phyto 125 ml per day, I am sure this will be more involved. All that is to say I don't mind daisy chaining my f1 into another doser and dosing this if needed. Thank you though, this does make more sense in this context

 

[Miami Reef]

ok this makes sense at least, I am currently only microdosing phyto 125 ml per day, I am sure this will be more involved. All that is to say I don't mind daisy chaining my f1 into another doser and dosing this if needed. Thank you though, this does make more sense in this context

You can start by manually dosing, as well. Your demand isn’t high enough to absolutely require dosing pumps. Pumps are for convenience and when the alkalinity demand is astronomically high to the point it will drop too low between dosages.

You can certainly work toward adding dosing pumps. For now, you can manually dose to get the job done.

 

[vittpsu21]

You can start by manually dosing, as well. Your demand isn’t high enough to absolutely require dosing pumps. Pumps are for convenience and when the alkalinity demand is astronomically high to the point it will drop too low between dosages.

You can certainly work toward adding dosing pumps. For now, you can manually dose to get the job done.

Yeah this is a good idea, I like the idea of automation sometimes, I work in DevOps so probably correlates somehow. I appreciate the responses, I will need to do a bit more research I still have quite a few things that haven't clicked in my head but this at least sorts out the larger question of if/when.

It seems confusing to me that you dose both parts Alk and Calc, and only one of mine might be falling etc at any time. I am sure as I read there will be more info on this, but the idea is slightly confusing lol

 

[Miami Reef]

Ask any questions you’d like. This area is one of my favorites to discuss.

Calcium is good between 400-550 ppm. It’s actually not a critical parameter, and corals tolerate a wide range. Dosing both solutions to maintain alkalinity will not cause calcium to climb. In the unlikely, hypothetical event it does reach 550 ppm+, just use the alkalinity part until calcium naturally declines through consumption.

Also remember that calcium depletes much slower than alkalinity. Additionally, calcium test kits aren’t as precise as alkalinity kits. It might seem like calcium isn’t being consumed, but that’s just because it depletes very slow relative to alkalinity.

2.8 dKH alkalinity consumed through calcification will also require 18-20 ppm calcium.

The proper range for reef tanks:

Alk: 7-11 dKH
Ca: 400-550 ppm

You can see how sensitive alkalinity changes appear beside calcium.

 

[vittpsu21]

Ask any questions you’d like. This area is one of my favorites to discuss.

Calcium is good between 400-550 ppm. It’s actually not a critical parameter, and corals tolerate a wide range. Dosing both solutions to maintain alkalinity will not cause calcium to climb. In the unlikely, hypothetical event it does reach 550 ppm+, just use the alkalinity part until calcium naturally declines through consumption.

Also remember that calcium depletes much slower than alkalinity. Additionally, calcium test kits aren’t as precise as alkalinity kits. It seems like calcium isn’t being consumed, but that’s just because it depletes very slow relative to alkalinity.

2.8 dKH alkalinity consumed through calcification will also require 18-20 ppm calcium. You can see how sensitive alkalinity changes appear beside calcium.

Ah ok so my 450 (again I haven't tested calc this week yet, I know I should have) I just find that salifert test way more focus oriented and my kid just isn't allowing it today is right on the lower end of that I guess. I am correct in assuming my falling Alk is a trend and something I should be shifting forcus to. I do think that when I change my salt to a better salt this might help slightly with my water changes? I have heard that dosing with the ESV B is pretty straight forward, though this LFS near me sometimes just says stuff to say it lol. I will likely gravitate towards daisey chaining the pumps but starting manual doesn't sound bad either

 

[Miami Reef]

Boosting your alkalinity from 6.6 dKH to 7.8 dKH will only increase calcium by 8 ppm.

I’m not sure which salt you use now and why it isn’t good enough. I’m not sure the salt ratio of alkalinity and calcium will make a difference in how much 2 part is dosed to a tank.

Salt mixes usually contain both in the natural range, so it won’t really push one higher than the other to warrant different dosing volumes.

 

[Damage12]

He mentioned that because it’s a common misconception that one absolutely must use one additive system. You can absolutely mix and match different systems depending on your needs, of course, but you also do not have to if your dosage can be scaled up over time.

It doesn’t matter how old the tank is. It doesn’t matter whether you add alkalinity through water changes vs a two part. Both are supplying alkalinity.

I think that advice is misguided because beginners sometimes don’t know how to properly dose a complete system, so the lazy and easy way out is telling them to just change water instead and hope they eventually learn how to dose in the future.

You seem well beyond that. You don’t need training wheels.

You’re telling someone with a new tank, a newbie, to start dosing 2 part. Your advice is reckless. A newbie shouldn’t be chasing numbers and start dosing randomly because alk is drifting lower. Now every time a parameter is slightly off, you’re going to have this person or other newbies start dosing some other product. Maybe the OP should let their tank stabilize for a few months.

 

[Miami Reef]

Some 2 part systems are not meant for 1:1 dosing and some tanks using sulfur denitrators or large nitrate dosing can have alkalinity deplete or increase at different rates than normal.

 

[vittpsu21]

Boosting your alkalinity from 6.6 dKH to 7.8 dKH will only increase calcium by 8 ppm.

I’m not sure which salt you use now and why it isn’t good enough. I’m not sure the salt ratio of alkalinity and calcium will make a difference in how much 2 part is dosed to a tank.

Salt mixes usually contain both in the natural range, so it won’t really push one higher than the other to warrant different dosing volumes.

I am using the Instant Ocean purple one, the basic one, I had heard it was good for fowlr tanks recently but not much else!

 

[vittpsu21]

You’re telling someone with a new tank, a newbie, to start dosing 2 part. Your advice is reckless. A newbie shouldn’t be chasing numbers and start dosing randomly because alk is drifting lower. Now every time a parameter is slightly off, you’re going to have this person or other newbies start dosing some other product. Maybe the OP should let their tank stabilize for a few months.

To be clear, as I stated at the beginning I am not chasing or trying to fix anything instantly. I was doing research and trying to understand. I am simply trying to understand the impact of the levels I am at and if and when I should be concerned and start to consider doing something about it. I posted my trends for a reason and even posed this question at the start about WHEN / IF I should worry or start to care about it.

This was in my first post

How do you know when it is time or needed to actually dose 2 part?

 

[Miami Reef]

I am using the Instant Ocean purple one, the basic one, I had heard it was good for fowlr tanks recently but not much else!

That salt has a proven track record that spans decades for producing stunning aquariums. It’s actually one of the best salt brands one can get. It’s very consistent and the parameters match the needed ratio of seawater.

My tank uses it. It’s actually one of the most common salt brands. I highly recommend it, actually.

 

[Miami Reef]

You’re telling someone with a new tank, a newbie, to start dosing 2 part. Your advice is reckless.

Really? Informing someone how to dose alkalinity is reckless?

I have helped many, many tanks and reefers over the years. This is basic 101. It’s a two-part, not gasoline.

 

[vittpsu21]

That salt has a proven track record that spans decades for producing stunning aquariums. It’s actually one of the best salt brands one can get. It’s very consistent and the parameters match the needed ratio of seawater.

My tank uses it. It’s actually one of the most common salt brands. I highly recommend it, actually.

oh!!! beautiful and good news!

 

[UncommonSense]

I am using the Instant Ocean purple one, the basic one

Isn’t the purple lid for FOWLR, and orange lid for Reef Crystals?