Help me to understand

[vetteguy53081]

Some because they are in a hurry to start up and ignore the implication of good equipment. I always say " Buy the best you can afford and BUY IT ONCE ".
Getting by works in freshwater and they don't see this , Others truly cant afford to get started but feel compelled to fire up at a low as possible cost and hope for the best

 

[rstrann]

I think the difference can be analogized like this:

Being "cheap" is having an open--top tank with fish. Being a "budget" reefer is building your own mesh top.

 

[SeaDweller]

I think the difference can be analogized like this:

Being "cheap" is having an open--top tank with fish. Being a "budget" reefer is building your own mesh top.

Huhhhhh???????

 

[mark vincent muriel]

this thread is cringe...

 

[Richardver]

If I had a reef tank when I was a lot younger, I wouldn't have been able to do it like I can now....thank God I had freshwater all my life:)

No thanks Scdell :D

 

[Tamberav]

I need help understanding why people feel the need to "cheap" out with this hobby????
Especially with all this Chinese "knock off" equipment. That's not proven over time, it's just cheaper than the proven equipment.
I had a tank about 20 years ago. I didn't have the money to buy what was right. I tried a lot of DIY stuff. I ended up killing more things for my desire to have a reef tank. I finally gave it up. Realized my desire wasn't helping the animals I put in my tank.
I never lost the desire though. I'm at a point in my life where I can afford the proper equipment. Boy can I tell you how much more fun this hobby is now!!!
Here's the way I see things now. You, me, we, anyone that has a tank, especially an sps tank.
We ARE their God. It is vital that we give our livestock our best effort. For their survival and our enjoyment. But their survival comes first.
I don't go to the store to buy the cheapest dog food I can find. My dogs deserve better.
We as humans tend to devalue lesser life forms. They can't scream, cry or ask for what they want. But they die just like you and me.
I'm responsible for my critters and I'm their God. I'm not going to throw cheap stuff at their survival. I'm going to go with the best I can honestly do.
Let's keep this thread civil please. If it gets into a storm I'll ask the mods to close it.
Thanks for reading.

Whats cheap? I used Reef Breeders years ago and my tanks did well. Battle corals uses them and no one is going to argue his results.

You can literally do a search and find threads dedicated to the chinese led's with pics of thriving SPS tanks...

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/black-box-led-sps-tank-where-is-the-success.261893/


If your SPS died, it was probably more than cheap equipment unless you were using something worse than cheap chinese led's.

 

[rstrann]

Huhhhhh???????

Pretty simple: being "cheap" is sacrificing the safety or quality of life of your livestock, when a budget-friendly solution is readily available.

 

[Ratsinmyhead]

To op. I can’t afford the best. But I WILL have a reef nonetheless. It has and will continue to take time to find good deals on used items and I have no problem with “knock offs”. Using the information I find on this forum I am certain I will be putting forth my personal “best effort” for the animals I keep. How do you think using knock offs vs proper equipment will effect a reef MORE than the person that is caring for that tank? I congratulate you on being able to buy top of the line, but at the same time are we supposed to shun those like me who are starting the hobby with a smaller budget? I feel if anyone has the determination AND the knowledge , they have just as good of a chance to keep a successful reef as anyone with high end equipment.

 

[Scdell]

To op. I can’t afford the best. But I WILL have a reef nonetheless. It has and will continue to take time to find good deals on used items and I have no problem with “knock offs”. Using the information I find on this forum I am certain I will be putting forth my personal “best effort” for the animals I keep. How do you think using knock offs vs proper equipment will effect a reef MORE than the person that is caring for that tank? I congratulate you on being able to buy top of the line, but at the same time are we supposed to shun those like me who are starting the hobby with a smaller budget? I feel if anyone has the determination AND the knowledge , they have just as good of a chance to keep a successful reef as anyone with high end equipment.

I understand not being able to not afford the best. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'm more questioning the people that can't afford it at all. Yet still wanting a tank. I'm sure a lot of them think they can sell corals to offset the expense. If that's why someone is getting into it then that's the wrong thought process. They may succeed, but most will not.

 

[Sidius]

It sort of feels like you posted your opinion and then attack anyone who has an opinion that's different than yours... You say that it's vital to spend top dollar on every aspect of your tank and if you don't you're putting the lives of your corals at risk. We shouldn't play "god" with our livestock, etc. but then also say that you started buying the expensive technology because you like it/enjoy it (not because it was what's best for your livestock).

The simple fact is the prices in this hobby are out of control and the only reason for the expensive prices is because people feel that it's not possible to run a reef tank without all the expensive gadgets. There is no reason that a powerhead should cost between $300 - $500. There's even less reason for a single light fixture to cost $800. Sure they might have slightly higher end LED's in them that can produce a bit higher PUR but if you have checked out the thread comparing some LED fixtures PUR to the sun, then you've seen that they produce considerably more than the sun (is that even necessary?). Oh and sorry, you can control them from your phone using an app, which has no bearing on the health or well being of your livestock. We are spending all this extra money to make the corals grow faster and produce more color than they do in nature (potentially). That makes me ask, is it necessary for their health and for them to thrive or is it necessary because we want our Walt Disney Acro to look better than the other guy on the forum? To me that's more selfish than it is required. I'll also ask this, do you keep your parameters anything above what the ocean parameters are for better growth? Keeping alk above 8 or calcium above 410? If you are then you aren't doing it for what the coral needs, you're doing it for yourself... period. That's like saying if you aren't giving your children growth hormones and steroids to grow faster+taller and be stronger than other children, you are a terrible parent.

 

[Scdell]

It sort of feels like you posted your opinion and then attack anyone who has an opinion that's different than yours... You say that it's vital to spend top dollar on every aspect of your tank and if you don't you're putting the lives of your corals at risk. We shouldn't play "god" with our livestock, etc. but then also say that you started buying the expensive technology because you like it/enjoy it (not because it was what's best for your livestock).

The simple fact is the prices in this hobby are out of control and the only reason for the expensive prices is because people feel that it's not possible to run a reef tank without all the expensive gadgets. There is no reason that a powerhead should cost between $300 - $500. There's even less reason for a single light fixture to cost $800. Sure they might have slightly higher end LED's in them that can produce a bit higher PUR but if you have checked out the thread comparing some LED fixtures PUR to the sun, then you've seen that they produce considerably more than the sun (is that even necessary?). Oh and sorry, you can control them from your phone using an app, which has no bearing on the health or well being of your livestock. We are spending all this extra money to make the corals grow faster and produce more color than they do in nature (potentially). That makes me ask, is it necessary for their health and for them to thrive or is it necessary because we want our Walt Disney Acro to look better than the other guy on the forum? To me that's more selfish than it is required. I'll also ask this, do you keep your parameters anything above what the ocean parameters are for better growth? Keeping alk above 8 or calcium above 410? If you are then you aren't doing it for what the coral needs, you're doing it for yourself... period. That's like saying if you aren't giving your children growth hormones and steroids to grow faster+taller and be stronger than other children, you are a terrible parent.

Stuff costs what it costs. Been to the grocery lately. Good steak for $10-15? Cars up to 100k. If you don't like it get out of the hobby. It's not changing. People like you are going to complain because you want a tank and can't afford it. Plain and simple.

 

[Scdell]

It sort of feels like you posted your opinion and then attack anyone who has an opinion that's different than yours... You say that it's vital to spend top dollar on every aspect of your tank and if you don't you're putting the lives of your corals at risk. We shouldn't play "god" with our livestock, etc. but then also say that you started buying the expensive technology because you like it/enjoy it (not because it was what's best for your livestock).

The simple fact is the prices in this hobby are out of control and the only reason for the expensive prices is because people feel that it's not possible to run a reef tank without all the expensive gadgets. There is no reason that a powerhead should cost between $300 - $500. There's even less reason for a single light fixture to cost $800. Sure they might have slightly higher end LED's in them that can produce a bit higher PUR but if you have checked out the thread comparing some LED fixtures PUR to the sun, then you've seen that they produce considerably more than the sun (is that even necessary?). Oh and sorry, you can control them from your phone using an app, which has no bearing on the health or well being of your livestock. We are spending all this extra money to make the corals grow faster and produce more color than they do in nature (potentially). That makes me ask, is it necessary for their health and for them to thrive or is it necessary because we want our Walt Disney Acro to look better than the other guy on the forum? To me that's more selfish than it is required. I'll also ask this, do you keep your parameters anything above what the ocean parameters are for better growth? Keeping alk above 8 or calcium above 410? If you are then you aren't doing it for what the coral needs, you're doing it for yourself... period. That's like saying if you aren't giving your children growth hormones and steroids to grow faster+taller and be stronger than other children, you are a terrible parent.

It's the people like you that posted this thread. You want everyone to quit buying the expensive equipment. Then the price comes down and then you'll buy it. That proves you want the equipment, but won't spend the money on it. Sounds like jealousy to me.

 

[Fourstars]

My newest tank is a 40B that cost me forty bucks, and only has a internal refugium and live rock. And I need not commit any white collar crimes to afford it. The secret to growth and successful reef tank is old fashioned hard work and dedication. You sound pretty elitist, that's for sure.

 

[Scdell]

Mods, please close this thread.

 

[tupes]

This is almost 3 years with a black box led. It has very much proven itself to me.

Very few sps (not really a fan)
Lots of everything else.

 

[Sidius]

Stuff costs what it costs. Been to the grocery lately. Good steak for $10-15? Cars up to 100k. If you don't like it get out of the hobby. It's not changing. People like you are going to complain because you want a tank and can't afford it. Plain and simple.

Whoah whoah... first don't ever assume that I'm complaining because I can't afford it. I never said anything of the sort and you know absolutely nothing about my current financial situation. I'm complaining because prices are out of control and until people start speaking up about it, they will continue to rise. You quote my post and attack my reasoning without addressing anything I actually said. There's no reason to attack people that disagree with you. In fact, you should expect it if you bring up a topic like this with such a strong opinion. It's all fine to rant about something but respect the other side of the argument without calling someone poor as a response.

 

[Scdell]

Mods, please close this thread.

 

[Sidius]

It's the people like you that posted this thread. You want everyone to quit buying the expensive equipment. Then the price comes down and then you'll buy it. That proves you want the equipment, but won't spend the money on it. Sounds like jealousy to me.

You sound like an upset teenager that's mad because nobody is taking your side of an argument lol. You don't even know if I already have the equipment and purchased at the current prices. All you're doing is stomping around calling people names for disagreeing with you at this point.

 

[BeejReef]

I'd say that if you're wagering your tank's life solely on bargain basement equipment, then you definitely have a point. I shouldn't go on vacation for a week and assume that one $28 dollar heater with no temp controller is ok. On the other hand, no amount of equipment or expense is as valuable as a human touch. If I'm willing to observe and interact with the tank twice a day, or have a trained friend do so, there's no reason I can't chance a powerhead, return pump, or light that may fail 40-50% sooner than the absolute highest end stuff. It's on me to have a spare or replace it very promptly. Perhaps I'll learn in time, as you have, that it's more economical to just buy top shelf from the jump, or maybe I'll get an item from a bargain item from a good batch that runs just as long.

 

[Turtlesteve]

It's the people like you that posted this thread. You want everyone to quit buying the expensive equipment. Then the price comes down and then you'll buy it. That proves you want the equipment, but won't spend the money on it. Sounds like jealousy to me.

Umm....you claim to have wanted a civil discussion?

If I feel any jealousy, it's when someone posts a gorgeous reef tank with cheap lights, no skimmer, no expensive reactors, minimal water changes, and they get away with almost no maintenance. I've no reason to be jealous of spending more money than I need to.