Help me to understand

[Scdell]

side shot

 

[Scdell]

other side.

 

[clicfacil]

Hi, friends, reefers
I give you my experience about using cheaper equipment or not and why.
I live in Venezuela and I think everyone knows what we have suffered for 20 years of communism with monetary exchange controls, with less and less imported products from this hobby, (food, equipment, supplements, additives, test of ca mg, kh, no3 , po4) ... I come from having many years with fresh water, then 15 years ago I was able to do it and I went for marine aquariums and in the beginning with this world you could buy equipment of higher quality. But if there is not enough medicine or food for the whole country, imagine how we try to keep our aquariums here ..... How do we even replace a fish when we die of old age? In this situation I had to try to give the best quality of life to the inhabitants of my reef, making less water changes for example, looking for water in the sea when the salt is finished, looking at possible deficiencies calcium eye, magnesium or alkalinity of how corals respond. Inventing porridges to feed my corals ... even so I have seen in my country very good aquariums with very ingenious BRICOS due to the country situation that we have. But I think that in some things we can not estimate the money (although they are not high-end they should have at least be of the middle range):
1) a good skimer
2) an acceptable light
3) circulation pumps
what else I think could be either cheap or made by oneself, such as: SUMP, REACTORS, CONTROLLER OR WITHOUT CONTROLLER.
Technology gives you more automation, safety, aesthetics. If you can pay, welcome, be it ... also according to my experience when you have unpleasant things happen in the aquarium and die living beings understand that if you had for example a controller who will pass an email if your salinity low your losses would have been much smaller than trying to save you some money for not having an APEX or an RK.
This does not guarantee anything but at least in my case it has helped me to endure these difficult days that my country is living. Obviously I do not have the best reef I would like at the moment because of the above, however I have the same fish, the same corals and I try to endure until better days come ... (the fish die of old until now no other cause).
As a curious or anecdotal fact, I have written emails to the sellers who regularly bought my products when my country was prosperous, they sent me, asking for help for what they live here and they did not give it ... a pot of food, a food for coral , whatever it was and nothing ... hahahahaha SOS but nothing.
thanks
Antonio

 

[Scdell]

Now for a little background. Tank has been set up for a little over a year and a half. I used black sand from the start. Mistake!!! I always had problems with acropora. Especially when introducing them to my tank. Some would make it, about half wouldn't. Couldn't figure it out. I finally sent of an ICP test. It can back with high levels of vanadium, nickel and molybdenum. Had no idea where those metals where coming from. Then I started noticing posts on r2r about the same results coming back from ICP. Everyone had black sand.
I've been doing water changes every week for 6-8 weeks now. I removed the black sand from the front and replaced it with Carib sea special grade sand. I'll be working on getting as much out from the back and the sides in the future. Just sent another ICP test off. I'm waiting for the results.
BTW high molybdenum cause excessive algae growth. And I have allot of asterina snails that ate my Coraline algae. I put 2 bumblebee snails in to counter that. Soooooo. It's a work in progress all because of black sand.

 

[Bleigh]

@Scdell You have some great coral colors.

I think cheap/expensive is relative. You can spend as much or as little money as you'd like on just about anything.

Just to give a silly example. I remodeled my kitchen recently and had to pick out a new garbage disposal. I could have spent less than $100 all the way to $1000's. Would the cheapest have worked? Yes, but slower, louder, more likely to clog (doesn't mean it would clog, just higher rates of it). Would the most expensive have worked... yes, but it would have been over kill and I can find better ways to spend my money. (Doesn't mean it wouldn't have clogged either, just lower rates of it.) :) I went with something I was willing to spend my money on that was slightly more reliable.

I know I get easily attached to animals, even things as "inconsequential" as fish. I want my fish to be as happy and healthy as they can be... and yes I will and have teared up when they die. I do not expect everyone to be as easily attached to fish as I am - actually... it would be weird if most people were. :P

I definitely see both sides. I think it's good to have a mix of super passionate with more realistic hobbyists collaborating and networking. It helps us all keep a more balanced perspective. :)

 

[Scdell]

@Scdell You have some great coral colors.

I think cheap/expensive is relative. You can spend as much or as little money as you'd like on just about anything.

Just to give a silly example. I remodeled my kitchen recently and had to pick out a new garbage disposal. I could have spent less than $100 all the way to $1000's. Would the cheapest have worked? Yes, but slower, louder, more likely to clog (doesn't mean it would clog, just higher rates of it). Would the most expensive have worked... yes, but it would have been over kill and I can find better ways to spend my money. (Doesn't mean it wouldn't have clogged either, just lower rates of it.) :) I went with something I was willing to spend my money on that was slightly more reliable.

I know I get easily attached to animals, even things as "inconsequential" as fish. I want my fish to be as happy and healthy as they can be... and yes I will and have teared up when they die. I do not expect everyone to be as easily attached to fish as I am - actually... it would be weird if most people were. :p

I definitely see both sides. I think it's good to have a mix of super passionate with more realistic hobbyists collaborating and networking. It helps us all keep a more balanced perspective. :)

Thank you!
I think I was tending to see my way of doing things and I was fixated on that. Especially with sps dominated reefs. But people have opened my eyes with this thread and that's what I was looking for out of this. Then there are some that looooove to argue. I've gotten into with some of them and almost got banned from r2r because of it. If you notice I'm staying away from them!
This really turned out to be quite an interesting thread. I wasn't going to start it because of the ones that like to argue, but I'm glad I did!

 

[Crustaceon]

I think the most important thing is to get more people in the hobby. This is where the cheap gear really shines. Most people who are new to this don’t have a specific wish list of gear for their tanks. All they know is “I need good lights, good flow and a protein skimmer”. This was my mentality when I started and I purchased those items one at a time with the $150 or so I could spare per month. I, just like a lot of people just wanted to get our tanks up and running, so that meant a finnex RAYII LED here and a cobalt titanium heater there. I saw stuff like Kessils but never thought about the additional benefit they would have over cheapy lights, especially since I had never grown coral before. Even now, I still don’t see the benefit vs. T5. Not when there will always be something “better” coming out and not when my stuff is colorful and growing. Now I’m looking for better circulation pumps and noticed Maxspect gyre 330’s and un-noticed them when I saw the pricetag. This is coming from someone who bought dual gyre xf-250’s and sold them because they were so annoyingly loud and had to be cleaned monthly (not joking) otherwise they lost around HALF of their flow. The new gyre series are supposedly a lot better but that’s over a $500 risk to take. I currently own sicce voyagers and love how quiet these ugly, relatively cheap pumps are. They rub full-time, no wavemaker, no nothing and my sps is growing like crazy. So now have my eyes on their HP series despite of having less flow and controllability than a large gyre. I honestly think these features (wavemakers, light ramping) are only put there to inflate the cost and provide little actual benefit to our tanks.

 

[Bleigh]

and un-noticed them when I saw the pricetag.

That literally made me laugh out loud!

 

[Fourstars]

I don't think people were trying to argue with you, They just didn't like your attitude. And with all that expensive equipment your tank in not that impressive and looks like you have some issues you need to deal with.

 

[Crustaceon]

Uh oh, here comes the reef forum salt.

 

[Scdell]

I think the most important thing is to get more people in the hobby. This is where the cheap gear really shines. Most people who are new to this don’t have a specific wish list of gear for their tanks. All they know is “I need good lights, good flow and a protein skimmer”. This was my mentality when I started and I purchased those items one at a time with the $150 or so I could spare per month. I, just like a lot of people just wanted to get our tanks up and running, so that meant a finnex RAYII LED here and a cobalt titanium heater there. I saw stuff like Kessils but never thought about the additional benefit they would have over cheapy lights, especially since I had never grown coral before. Even now, I still don’t see the benefit vs. T5. Not when there will always be something “better” coming out and not when my stuff is colorful and growing. Now I’m looking for better circulation pumps and noticed Maxspect gyre 330’s and un-noticed them when I saw the pricetag. This is coming from someone who bought dual gyre xf-250’s and sold them because they were so annoyingly loud and had to be cleaned monthly (not joking) otherwise they lost around HALF of their flow. The new gyre series are supposedly a lot better but that’s over a $500 risk to take. I currently own sicce voyagers and love how quiet these ugly, relatively cheap pumps are. They rub full-time, no wavemaker, no nothing and my sps is growing like crazy. So now have my eyes on their HP series despite of having less flow and controllability than a large gyre. I honestly think these features (wavemakers, light ramping) are only put there to inflate the cost and provide little actual benefit to our tanks.

I picked vortech mp 40,s for two reasons. No wires in the tank and no motors in the tank causing excess heat. Expensive? Yes. I've been looking at gyres. Just can't seem to justify them. My mp 40,s do just fine. Even better with a profilux 4 alternating that flow. I can mimick tides. Personally I think the more you can replicate like nature the better for the corals. Yes, even moonlight.

 

[Scdell]

I don't think people were trying to argue with you, They just didn't like your attitude. And with all that expensive equipment your tank in not that impressive and looks like you have some issues you need to deal with.

Like I said. I have argued with some of them. I know the ones to stay away from. I do grow corals. And I'm working on the sand issue. Who would have known? Took me a year and a half to figure it out. Black sand is magnetic.

 

[Crustaceon]

I’ve never had to worry too much about excessive heat in my tank. I actually let it get up to 84 in the summer and that’s with an 80 degree ambient room temp (San Diego weather) with four in-tank circulation pumps, the return pump and a skimmer pump running 24/7. It doesn’t seem to negatively impact anything in the tank.

 

[Scdell]

I don't think people were trying to argue with you, They just didn't like your attitude. And with all that expensive equipment your tank in not that impressive and looks like you have some issues you need to deal with.

And impressive is subject to interpretation also. I for one am not all that impressed with lps only tanks. Just what I like. Kinda like music. Many tastes out there. If everyone liked the same thing it would be an awful boring world.

 

[Scdell]

I’ve never had to worry too much about excessive heat in my tank. I actually let it get up to 84 in the summer and that’s with an 80 degree ambient room temp (San Diego weather) with four in-tank circulation pumps, the return pump and a skimmer pump running 24/7. It doesn’t seem to negatively impact anything in the tank.

I assume you don't have sps then? That's pretty much a no no for sps.

 

[Crustaceon]

I assume you don't have sps then? That's pretty much a no no for sps.

My tank is sps dominant, including acros, milles and loads of montis. Keep in mind the average world reef temp is around 85 degrees I believe.

 

[Scdell]

My tank is sps dominant, including acros, milles and loads of montis. Keep in mind the average world reef temp is around 85 degrees I believe.

What do you keep it at the rest of the year? Maybe I should keep mine higher? I currently keep it at 77.

 

[Crustaceon]

I keep things at 80 most of the year.

 

[Scdell]

I keep things at 80 most of the year.

Goes to show. You can't believe everything you read.

 

[Bouncingsoul39]

Now for a little background. Tank has been set up for a little over a year and a half. I used black sand from the start. Mistake!!! I always had problems with acropora. Especially when introducing them to my tank. Some would make it, about half wouldn't. Couldn't figure it out. I finally sent of an ICP test. It can back with high levels of vanadium, nickel and molybdenum. Had no idea where those metals where coming from. Then I started noticing posts on r2r about the same results coming back from ICP. Everyone had black sand.
I've been doing water changes every week for 6-8 weeks now. I removed the black sand from the front and replaced it with Carib sea special grade sand. I'll be working on getting as much out from the back and the sides in the future. Just sent another ICP otest off. I'm waiting for the results.
BTW high molybdenum cause excessive algae growth. And I have allot of asterina snails that ate my Coraline algae. I put 2 bumblebee snails in to counter that. Soooooo. It's a work in progress all because of black sand.

This is an interesting observation. I too had black sand in my last tank. LPS thrived and had great growth but any Acro I added would RTN within a few days. My new tank is setup also with caribsea sand, Fiji pink and Bahamas oolite. I didn’t do an icp test but suspected heavy metal poisoning just from what I’ve read about it but couldn’t figure out the source after checking many times for rust or stray metal anywhere. To think it could’ve been the black sand. Hmmm.