Help me understand and plan my cycle

[Matt Miller]

I know this is a common question, and I'm sorry I am just struggling to comprehend the whole thing. It may be that I won't fully get it till I go through the steps, but I could use an extra nudge/shove in the right direction.

I am finishing up my rocks cape now, I have a bottle of Dr Tim's one and only, 20 lbs live sand. I'll be using premixed saltwater from my lfs also.

I have a big canister filter, 20 gal tank and want to get my cycle run through before I get my 20 g cube display tank ready.

I want 2 clowns and anemones farther down the road, I would be ok getting the clowns in the cycle tank if that would help with the cycling process.

Thanks in advance and sorry for the repeat.

 

[brandon429]

This will work:

add in the bottle bac to the setup when ready. Add the liquid cycling ammonia from Dr Tims
the amount to add is on the bottle no testing needed. it’s drops per gallon.

add in one ground up pinch of flake feed common fish food along with the bottle bac and ammonia.


let all this stew fifteen days. On days seven add one more zip of bottle bac and flake feed


Change your water for new on day fifteen, it’s cycled. It can’t not cycle. How simple is that


contrasted to fish- in cycles, which is add fish add bottle bac same day this is rather patient. That you are waiting it out is prudent.

this approach simplifies cycling. It addresses these common issues people have:


mis testing-the way above didn’t factor any test readings it’s a known working arrangement for that mix + water to produce bacteria.

never knowing when one can begin safely- we meet a cycling chart ammonia control line in the above method, and we exceed the number of days stated on the bottle bac. Changing the water for new or mostly new is the clean condition start, the filter bacteria are immune to water changes and are adhered to surfaces.

 

[Matt Miller]

This will work:

add in the bottle bac to the setup when ready. Add the liquid cycling ammonia from Dr Tims
the amount to add is on the bottle no testing needed. it’s drops per gallon.

add in one ground up pinch of flake feed common fish food along with the bottle bac and ammonia.


let all this stew fifteen days. On days seven add one more zip of bottle bac and flake feed


Change your water for new on day fifteen, it’s cycled. It can’t not cycle. How simple is that


contrasted to fish- in cycles, which is add fish add bottle bac same day this is rather patient. That you are waiting it out is prudent.

this approach simplifies cycling. It addresses these common issues people have:


mis testing-the way above didn’t factor any test readings it’s a known working arrangement for that mix + water to produce bacteria.

never knowing when one can begin safely- we meet a cycling chart ammonia control line in the above method, and we exceed the number of days stated on the bottle bac. Changing the water for new or mostly new is the clean condition start, the filter bacteria are immune to water changes and are adhered to surfaces.

Thanks for the detailed response, I've been trying to read through your thread about instant cycling and I'm struggling.
I desperately want to understand this but it's not sinking in. I really appreciate this.
One more question, the bottle bac says 30g, should I split it up for 2 doses or grab another bottle and use full each time?

 

[brandon429]

Split up is great it’s truly plenty. Can’t wait to see how it turns out

if you want to run tests along the way for fun thats no harm as well post the pics. Either way it will work even if ammonia doesn’t drop to pure zero on the kit. Along the way in this arrangement some nitrate will pop up signaling the machinery is working. That or the ammonia level on day one of addition drops down to a lower level by day fifteen, either one confirms.


to predict what a total fail will register so we have both ends of the spectrum up front, dead bottled bacteria will leave ammonia spiked evenly the whole time, no nitrite or nitrate can register because the machinery would be dead. It would be the equivalent to dosing a lemonade pitcher of water with ammonia, it will just sit there as diluted ammonia.

but dosed into a suspected biosystem, that initial ammonia plus fish feed carbon (Dr Reefs trick) will trigger machinery in action. The main character of new vs old cycling science is that cycles won’t stall they're trustworthy to complete when the directions say they will. By reducing the total testing to some nitrate present, or ammonia down from a higher level just once is good enough, we remove mis reading right off the bat, we don’t need classic zero ammonia zero nitrite and some nitrate. That takes 30 days to attain, the bottle bac moves up our start date by controlling ammonia quickly. The challenge at day fifteen won’t be ammonia control, it will be fish disease prevention protocol control. Some methods don’t allow for quick fish up front, but they allow for corals and everything else / not a boring start at all

 

[RobB'z Reef]

@brandon429 does know a few things about cycling. It's a proven science, there are no surprises here. If you're using a live bacteria your cycle will be a bit faster, if you're using a dormant one it'll be a bit longer. Either way, ignore nitrites, those are just a distraction, nitrates are a factor of processed ammonia. I've used Tim's, i it's slower as it's a dormant bacteria but it's every bit as effective as something like fritz that's a live bacteria but it will cycle faster as you don't have to wait for it to wake up. Either way, after about 2-3 weeks just watch your ammonia tend. This should decrease with your nitrates rising according. It's a fixed cycle, it'll do is own thing regardless

 

[blasterman]

I would try to add some Live rock from an established tank over bottled nitrifying bacteria any day. Sorry, I don't take bagged live sand seriously.

If you can't get some chunks of LR bacteria in a bottle is a distant second choice, but still hurries things up over starting a sterile tank. Two clowns are a pretty modest bio load and I wouldn't spend much time fussing around with cycling.

 

[Brett S]

I have a big canister filter, 20 gal tank and want to get my cycle run through before I get my 20 g cube display tank ready.

I want 2 clowns and anemones farther down the road, I would be ok getting the clowns in the cycle tank if that would help with the cycling process.

I‘m not quite understanding these comments. It sounds like you have two 20G tanks? One that you are cycling and then another 20G cube display tank? If you do have two tanks then remember that each tank will need to do it’s own cycle.

Or maybe I’m just misunderstanding your comments and there is only one 20G tank.

 

[Matt Miller]

I‘m not quite understanding these comments. It sounds like you have two 20G tanks? One that you are cycling and then another 20G cube display tank? If you do have two tanks then remember that each tank will need to do it’s own cycle.

Or maybe I’m just misunderstanding your comments and there is only one 20G tank.

I do have 2 tanks, but only one will be up at a time. I'm using the 20 long to get it cycled while I set up my 20g cube which will be my dt. The 20 long is for my qt so I thought it would be good to get cycled while setting up my main tank.

My long term goal is 2 clowns and bta's.

I'm anxious to get to adding anemones so in my mind getting cycled in this tank would get me to that faster.

I don't have a stand yet for my main tank and that's turning into the biggest holdup.

If I get cycled and stable in this tank then it'll be easier to transfer to the cube and get that all set, maybe in the future I can switch to a 10g for QT.

At least thats what I'm thinking.

Thanks for all the advice

 

[Matt Miller]

I would try to add some Live rock from an established tank over bottled nitrifying bacteria any day. Sorry, I don't take bagged live sand seriously.

If you can't get some chunks of LR bacteria in a bottle is a distant second choice, but still hurries things up over starting a sterile tank. Two clowns are a pretty modest bio load and I wouldn't spend much time fussing around with cycling.

I can probably pick up a small piece of lr from my lfs when I get my saltwater.
I want to keep this tank as low maintenance as possible, 2 clowns is all I plan on keeping other than anemones.

 

[Brett S]

I think you’re creating more work for yourself by trying to get things set up and cycled in one tank and then transferring everything to the DT. There’s really no reason not to just set up the DT how you want it and then cycle that tank.

Like I said, you’ll need to cycle each tank, but it‘s a little more complicated than that. If you put all your rocks and the canister filter and everything on the temporary tank and get that cycled, then you can move the canister filter and the rocks to the DT and it will essentially be cycled as the bacteria will come over with the rocks and canister filter. However it may go through a mini cycle as sometimes there is some die off in the rocks and media in the canister filter during the transition. But at that point the temporary tank will no longer be cycled because all of the bacteria was moved out with the rocks and canister filter.

I think you’ll be much better off just setting up the DT and doing the cycle there.

 

[Matt Miller]

I think you’re creating more work for yourself by trying to get things set up and cycled in one tank and then transferring everything to the DT. There’s really no reason not to just set up the DT how you want it and then cycle that tank.

Like I said, you’ll need to cycle each tank, but it‘s a little more complicated than that. If you put all your rocks and the canister filter and everything on the temporary tank and get that cycled, then you can move the canister filter and the rocks to the DT and it will essentially be cycled as the bacteria will come over with the rocks and canister filter. However it may go through a mini cycle as sometimes there is some die off in the rocks and media in the canister filter during the transition. But at that point the temporary tank will no longer be cycled because all of the bacteria was moved out with the rocks and canister filter.

I think you’ll be much better off just setting up the DT and doing the cycle there.

As much as I hate to wait longer, that does make a lot of sense...

 

[Matt Miller]

Since I'm still deciding on the stand, do I need a lot of flow to cycle and get things going?

I'm still waiting for saltwateraquarium.com to get nero 3's back in stock, so I don't have a powerhead yet. Will the return pump be enough for cycling or will it cause more problems without proper flow?

I have everything but the stand and powerhead. I am anxious to get this cycle started so I can get my tank going.

 

[Matt Miller]

Well it's started!

 

[Matt Miller]

GFCI keeps shutting down the tank, I guess I get to do some troubleshooting tonight after work

 

[Brett S]

GFCI keeps shutting down the tank, I guess I get to do some troubleshooting tonight after work

GFCI’s can be incredibly frustrating like that, but are important for safety. If the GFCI is a few years old it might just be failing. I’ve had to replace a few GFCI outlets that had been working fine for several years, then started to trip frequently for no reason no matter what was plugged into them.

 

[Matt Miller]

GFCI’s can be incredibly frustrating like that, but are important for safety. If the GFCI is a few years old it might just be failing. I’ve had to replace a few GFCI outlets that had been working fine for several years, then started to trip frequently for no reason no matter what was plugged into them.

I've replaced a few in my house but this one is brand new. Since 20a breaker one line ran just for this.

I'm thinking about just taking it back and getting a different one, it's very easy to click the test button and turn it off.

 

[Matt Miller]

I know the API tests have a bad rap, but it's what I have and sounds like it'll cycle anyway. I also have a seachem ammonia alert badge.

Is there another ammonia test I should get for after I use this up, or will the alert badge be enough along with the API tests?

 

[Matt Miller]

Seachem alert badge doesn't seem to be changing at all, but my ammonia is reading down to .5-1.0 range and nitrates around 20.

If I understand correctly it's almost done cycling!

Today was day 10 so I'll give it 4 more days and do large WC.