Help. Need to drastically improve ph

[Project1004]

Bare bottom here.

Morning low

Looking good :) is that with calcium reactor?

 

[spsick]

OP it looks like you have explosive growth on some corals. Don’t fix what isn’t broken. I have pH between 8.1-8.3 (took a giant 2 chamber co2 scrubber, fresh air to skimmer, and an ERV in my house to get it) and have ok growth but also can’t grow Millie’s or green Slimer, so pH isn’t everything.

If you must, get an Aranet co2 monitor and move it around your house for a few weeks and figure out if that’s your problem. If it is, get an ERV installed. It will cost you less in the long run and your home and tank will be healthier.

 

[MnFish1]

You and @MnFish1 are not talking about the same thing.

He's not disputing that water changes can help with coral growth. He's disputing that water changes make a meaningful difference to pH. Which is born out with your screengrabs: You had a pH of 8.39 the day before. Then you had a pH of 8.38. Then 8.37. Then 8.38. Then 8.35.

Those don't look like numbers that were impacted by a water change. Those look like the normal random fluctuations that happen to pH on a regular basis.

A water change is most likely good for coral growth, but the benefits of a water change have little to do with any pH changes.

Correct

 

[MnFish1]

You don’t think water change helps with coral growth? X.x

No - I said that the differences seen on your measurement devise are NOT significantly different.

 

[Project1004]

OP it looks like you have explosive growth on some corals. Don’t fix what isn’t broken. I have pH between 8.1-8.3 (took a giant 2 chamber co2 scrubber, fresh air to skimmer, and an ERV in my house to get it) and have ok growth but also can’t grow Millie’s or green Slimer, so pH isn’t everything.

If you must, get an Aranet co2 monitor and move it around your house for a few weeks and figure out if that’s your problem. If it is, get an ERV installed. It will cost you less in the long run and your home and tank will be healthier.

I thought about air exchange units... Depends on how big your house is, you can get portable AC unit for around $600-$1000 and will get you air exchanged while cooling and heating the house which is cheaper route. (The ones with double pipes and not the single). My fireplace exchanges air but not fast enough and was super drafty. You can only imagine how much ispent last winter for heating... Drafty house tend to have better air circulation.

Here is an expamle of good AC for air exchange.

 

[JWsticks]

There’s a fairly limited set of tools to reduce CO2. Lanthanum does not give a pH boost.

Basically it comes down to reducing CO2 in the e air the tank is aerated with, adding CO2 absorbing hydroxide or carbonate to the water itself, or removing CO2 by photosynthesis.

Randy is providing golden nuggets as always and would like to expand on it with my own experience.

Previously, I was dosing bi-carbonate and pH peaked at 8.2x and the low was 8.0 with refugium light schedule running opposite of the display.

Journey to reach 8.6x pH and would only recommend below to experienced reefers:

Run the refugium lights schedule same as display tank light schedule. This increased peak pH to 8.3 - 8.4 however my low pH was now 7.8-7.9 before the display lights come on. To reap the pH benefits from the refugium, it is lit with a 50w LED cob and it is critical to have a STRONG light as this will trigger increased speed in photosynthesis by the refugium algae.

Next, I switched to sodium hydroxide (NaOH) dosing in early Jun from bi-carb and on the second day I saw pH peak at 8.6 with the low at 8.0. Currently dosing 180ml (10pct solution 500G NaOH into 5L of water) to maintian 8.0dkh for 150G total water volume.

Many would debate if 8.6x pH needed? For SPS tanks, I would say most definitely. Growth has been insane and I'm now also dosing PO4 where I've had to export previously. SPS will also use PO4 for growth. Potassium phophate is also added to the Sodium Hydroxide mix to maintain PO4. Note I like Potassium phosphate here because you'll also need to dose Potassium due to the increased growth in refugium algae.

Hope this helps anyone that is also looking down the pH rabbit hole.

 

[painter1982]

Add ozone or another way to get rid of the dissolved organics better. Detritus removal too. It’s the conversion of nutrients bringing down ph most likely in your situation, imo.

That may or may not be true, but even if true, it won’t raise pH.

It did in my 180. Stays at 8.2

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It did in my 180. Stays at 8.2

Not sure what you are saying, but I do not doubt your pH values. What I doubt is that ozone played a significant role in determining that pH. I see no plausible mechanism for ozone to boost pH.

 

[CarpetSurfer]

Kind of have a hard time your co2 media is being used within a week even when recirculating. Can you post a pic of the setup? Perfect coral High PH 2 part might be something your interested in. I see my ph hit 8.7 sometimes(although that’s when I start to see issues) but I keep it between 8.3 and 8.6

 

[alindell]

Cool... I hope OP takes more organic ways to raise pH instead using chemcals or something... Would less organics in the water raise pH? Do some cleaning perhaps.

Edit: perhaps go bare bottom?!

Lol I do have mainly a bare bottom. I have sand in one part for a few wrasses. I've tried doing it the organic way. I grew a bunch of algae in my sump that clogged everything and made a mess and it didn't do anything to ph. I'm not messing with that stuff anymore. It's pointless. I had to keep a light on for like 16 hours and half the time cheato fell apart and macro algea died. The light also grew hair algea too that hot everywhere in my skimmer.... Just NO. Such a waste and a mess for nothing.

 

[alindell]

Kind of have a hard time your co2 media is being used within a week even when recirculating. Can you post a pic of the setup? Perfect coral High PH 2 part might be something your interested in. I see my ph hit 8.7 sometimes(although that’s when I start to see issues) but I keep it between 8.3 and 8.6

Elaborate further with this 2 part high oh supplement. Right now I maintain everything with auto water change, kalk, and all for reef. The struggle is just ph

 

[alindell]

OP it looks like you have explosive growth on some corals. Don’t fix what isn’t broken. I have pH between 8.1-8.3 (took a giant 2 chamber co2 scrubber, fresh air to skimmer, and an ERV in my house to get it) and have ok growth but also can’t grow Millie’s or green Slimer, so pH isn’t everything.

If you must, get an Aranet co2 monitor and move it around your house for a few weeks and figure out if that’s your problem. If it is, get an ERV installed. It will cost you less in the long run and your home and tank will be healthier.

It exploded but growth has slowed. I use to have higher pH but now I'm hovering below 8 mist of the day. Sometimes even below 7.8 ughhh

 

[CarpetSurfer]

Kind of have a hard time your co2 media is being used within a week even when recirculating. Can you post a pic of the setup? Perfect coral High PH 2 part might be something your interested in. I see my ph hit 8.7 sometimes(although that’s when I start to see issues) but I keep it between 8.3 and 8.6

Elaborate further with this 2 part high oh supplement. Right now I maintain everything with auto water change, kalk, and all for reef. The struggle is just ph

Funny I was actually doing the same thing as you. Dosing AFR and Kalk. The AFR definetly isn’t helping your low pH since it does nothing to increase pH unlike most other 2part or alk additives.

I then wanted to chase the pH dragon and switched from AFR to this product:

Complete Tank System Set (High pH): 2-Part Calcium and pH Boosting Alk

Our Complete Tank System is a simple and effective 2-part tank care solution designed to support vibrant coral growth, strong skeletal development, and overall tank health. This version of our Complete Tank System includes a high pH Alkalinity in Part 2. Ideal for the experienced hobbyist...

perfectcorals.com

It’s a 2 part dosing regimen with all the elements you should need. Similar to AFR but it does require 1 more doser however significantly helps pH so there is a trade off but worth it IMO

I’ve actually in the last week stopped dosing kalk through my ato and just bumped up my 2 part dosing so it’s easier to control everything.

 

[alindell]

Randy is providing golden nuggets as always and would like to expand on it with my own experience.

Previously, I was dosing bi-carbonate and pH peaked at 8.2x and the low was 8.0 with refugium light schedule running opposite of the display.

Journey to reach 8.6x pH and would only recommend below to experienced reefers:

Run the refugium lights schedule same as display tank light schedule. This increased peak pH to 8.3 - 8.4 however my low pH was now 7.8-7.9 before the display lights come on. To reap the pH benefits from the refugium, it is lit with a 50w LED cob and it is critical to have a STRONG light as this will trigger increased speed in photosynthesis by the refugium algae.

Next, I switched to sodium hydroxide (NaOH) dosing in early Jun from bi-carb and on the second day I saw pH peak at 8.6 with the low at 8.0. Currently dosing 180ml (10pct solution 500G NaOH into 5L of water) to maintian 8.0dkh for 150G total water volume.

Many would debate if 8.6x pH needed? For SPS tanks, I would say most definitely. Growth has been insane and I'm now also dosing PO4 where I've had to export previously. SPS will also use PO4 for growth. Potassium phophate is also added to the Sodium Hydroxide mix to maintain PO4. Note I like Potassium phosphate here because you'll also need to dose Potassium due to the increased growth in refugium algae.

Hope this helps anyone that is also looking down the pH rabbit hole.

Is there anything I can dose without changing my current set up..I really don't want to switch up what I do for dosing. I wouldn't mind adding something on my Neptune Dos that's relatively safe without disrupting everything. I just want to be around 8.2 which is what the oceans were before the industrial Revolution. Natural seawater is 8.2 to 8.3. in today's ocean it's dropped a lot which has significantly impacted coral

 

[alindell]

It appears t

Funny I was actually doing the same thing as you. Dosing AFR and Kalk. The AFR definetly isn’t helping your low pH since it does nothing to increase pH unlike most other 2part or alk additives.

I then wanted to chase the pH dragon and switched from AFR to this product:

Complete Tank System Set (High pH): 2-Part Calcium and pH Boosting Alk

Our Complete Tank System is a simple and effective 2-part tank care solution designed to support vibrant coral growth, strong skeletal development, and overall tank health. This version of our Complete Tank System includes a high pH Alkalinity in Part 2. Ideal for the experienced hobbyist...

perfectcorals.com

It’s a 2 part dosing regimen with all the elements you should need. Similar to AFR but it does require 1 more doser however significantly helps pH so there is a trade off but worth it IMO

I’ve actually in the last week stopped dosing kalk through my ato and just bumped up my 2 part dosing so it’s easier to control everything.

It appears the second part is the high pH part coming from the hydroxide. Is there something I can buy and dose that just raises ph to 8.3 ish without having to go on a completely different method

 

[CarpetSurfer]

It appears t

Funny I was actually doing the same thing as you. Dosing AFR and Kalk. The AFR definetly isn’t helping your low pH since it does nothing to increase pH unlike most other 2part or alk additives.

I then wanted to chase the pH dragon and switched from AFR to this product:

Complete Tank System Set (High pH): 2-Part Calcium and pH Boosting Alk

Our Complete Tank System is a simple and effective 2-part tank care solution designed to support vibrant coral growth, strong skeletal development, and overall tank health. This version of our Complete Tank System includes a high pH Alkalinity in Part 2. Ideal for the experienced hobbyist...

perfectcorals.com

It’s a 2 part dosing regimen with all the elements you should need. Similar to AFR but it does require 1 more doser however significantly helps pH so there is a trade off but worth it IMO

I’ve actually in the last week stopped dosing kalk through my ato and just bumped up my 2 part dosing so it’s easier to control everything.

It appears the second part is the high pH part coming from the hydroxide. Is there something I can buy and dose that just raises ph to 8.3 ish without having to go on a completely different method

Not really because you’re already dosing AFR and Kalk. AFR is already balanced, Kalk is already balanced with alk and calcium so anything you add will only shoot up alk. There is no single dosing regimen that increases pH. Whatever you add to increase your pH will also increase your alk which will now be out of whack with your other dosing regimens and you’ll never get it balanced. Do please post a pic of your co2 recirculating set up because it’s very u likely your going through media in 1 week when it’s hooked up properly. I replace mine every 4-6 weeks.

 

[JWsticks]

Is there anything I can dose without changing my current set up..I really don't want to switch up what I do for dosing. I wouldn't mind adding something on my Neptune Dos that's relatively safe without disrupting everything. I just want to be around 8.2 which is what the oceans were before the industrial Revolution. Natural seawater is 8.2 to 8.3. in today's ocean it's dropped a lot which has significantly impacted coral

Try restarting the fuge with a high powered light using pom pom alage. I like that over chaeto as it doesn't get clogged with detritus and grows just as fast.

 

[alindell]

There’s a fairly limited set of tools to reduce CO2. Lanthanum does not give a pH boost.

Basically it comes down to reducing CO2 in the e air the tank is aerated with, adding CO2 absorbing hydroxide or carbonate to the water itself, or removing CO2 by photosynthesis.

Okay it's not lanthum. I think he was talking about potassium hydroxide. What do you think about dosing this?

 

[alindell]

There’s a fairly limited set of tools to reduce CO2. Lanthanum does not give a pH boost.

Basically it comes down to reducing CO2 in the e air the tank is aerated with, adding CO2 absorbing hydroxide or carbonate to the water itself, or removing CO2 by photosynthesis.

Okay I read about Koh and NaOh. Seems like you suggested NaOh over Koh. I already dose CaOh or kalkwasser but how would I go about adding NaOh to improve pH. I know that would raise my alk so I would have to adjust my current kalk output. Or do you even suggest I use NaOh. I'm really trying to find an easy solution that doesn't require me using CO2 scrubbers, or a refugium.

 

[alindell]

The kalk just doesn't provide enough ph boost and if I add anymore I'll increase alk too high and I would be getting to a point of replacing top off water with kalkwasser. Currently have it being dosed from a kamoer fix stp around 4ml a minute on a 150 gallon