OP
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Sobo's Reef
Valuable Member
That’s what I thought... and I should use fresh saltwater with BioSpira right?
Help. Never treated for ICH before
- Thread starter Sobo's Reef
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There are different methods to treat fish disease, I am not sure what works best. I do not have much experience with copper but I know that copper is not good for coral so I do not use it. The method I am proposing is lowering the salt concentration in the water to allow the fish's immune system to fight off the infection. I said to use DT water since most tanks have ICH and it can be hard to get rid of it, but the reason why your fish gets the infection is not because ICH is in the tank it is because your fish was stressed/unhealthy which made it susceptible to the infection. By separating it from other fish and getting it eating you can improve the health of the fish instead of fighting the microbe taking advantage of the fish. It is like if you get sick the option of taking medicine or getting more sleep and eating healthier...either way can be effective just chose one that works for you and go with it.
OP
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Sobo's Reef
Valuable Member
Well my plan is to remove all fish to QT. Treat accordingly and let my DT run fallow for 76 days to kill off any remaining free swimmers
blkhwkz
Well-Known Member
I am sorry, but most everything you said here is just plain incorrect. Stress is not the cause of ich, ich is a parasite, not an infection, with a known life cycle and known ways to get rid of it. Stress lowers the immune system which makes the fish unable to fight off the parasite. There are also hypo resistant strains of ich.
In any event this appears to be velvet, and not ich, which is a much bigger issue. I have battled both, including both at the same time, and I do not have ich in any of my tanks at all.
OP
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Sobo's Reef
Valuable Member
Bc within 18hrs it went from having a few white specks to being completely covered which is a sign of velvet I’m told. I’ve never had either so this is all new to me but I’m ready to tackle this beast
OP
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Sobo's Reef
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And if I’m not correct I’m sorry but if I QT all fish, treat accordingly and let the DT run fallow for 76 days, won’t that kill both ICH and velvet?
Big G
captain dunsel
Here's Humblefish's thread on Going Fallow. Lots of good information. Hope this helps. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fallow-periods-going-fishless.190324/#post-2183025
My comments were referred to blkhwkz, he claimed that he did not have ICH in his tank and I wanted to know how he knew that since ICH can be present without being visible. Maybe he did Polymerase Chain Reaction on his water to amplfy a know DNA fragment and seperated it out using gel electrophoresis and when compared to a control found that he had no ICH in his tank but I doubt it. Treatments don't always kill everything. Many health care workers have latent tuberculosis infections, 10% of people during winter time test positive for strep throat when they don't have symptoms. A fish can have ICH on it and not have white spots. Your fish tank likely has mycobaterium marinum in it too but you have not gotten infected from it because your immune system fights it off...if you had HIV then that's another story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycobacterium_marinum
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Sobo's Reef
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Okay so here’s my plan.. well partial plan.. tomorrow/today I’m going to go to my LFS, buy a tank, chemicals, ammonia badge, some pvc, an aqua clear filter and BioSpira.... I’m gonna set that up as soon as I get home.... then I’m gonna start removing rockwork from my tank and try and catch all the fish...
My questions are...
1. Should I freshwater dip each fish before putting them into QT?
1a. Do I need to freshwater dip into separate containers?
2. Am I dosing the tank with copper up to a certain amount before fish go in? Or afterwards?
3. Should I buy any type of ammonia reducer?
I think that’s all the questions I have for now... even after reading so many articles.. it’s still nerve wrecking to me
My questions are...
1. Should I freshwater dip each fish before putting them into QT?
1a. Do I need to freshwater dip into separate containers?
2. Am I dosing the tank with copper up to a certain amount before fish go in? Or afterwards?
3. Should I buy any type of ammonia reducer?
I think that’s all the questions I have for now... even after reading so many articles.. it’s still nerve wrecking to me
Big G
captain dunsel
First thing to do would be to fill the tank and measure the actual volume of the tank. A 20 gallon tank is not actually 20 gallons. You need to know the actual volume to do the best job possible at dosing the tank with copper to avoid under/over dosing. The effective range for example of Coppersafe is 1.5 ppm - 2.0 ppm. And since we have determined velvet to be the problem, the minimum level would be 1.5 ppm of Coppersafe.
I would follow Humblefish's Emergency Plan for Velvet and move them one by one, starting with the worst infected fish if possible into the QT.
So following his plan of the freshwater dip, followed immediately with the acriflavine bath, then into the QT that's already at the minimum level of copper is the best path to your fish's survival.
The copper will be hard on the fish, but you have no choice. Remember the copper doesn't act on the parasites already attached to the fish. The fish has to "weather" the parasites already attached, that's what the freshwater dip (parasites will die and drop off from using this dip) and acriflavine (is both an antibiotic and antiseptic that will help prevent bacterial diseases that are common and often kill fish going through velvet treatments) bath are for. The parasites will be effected by both treatments. So that's a good thing. And well worth the effort. The copper kills the "free swimming" stage of parasites that want to finish off your fish with additional attacks.
Make no mistake. Copper is a poison and it is hard on the fish. Some may not make it. The key is to work calmly and carefully.
Do not use ammonia reducers like Prime with copper. It creates a toxic condition in the tank. Use water changes to control ammonia.
You will need air stones to aerate the fw dip and the acriflavine bath.
I'm a big fan of Ruby Reef Rally for the acriflavine bath if you can find it.
Here's a video on how to do a freshwater dip by our own Meredith: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/video-how-to-do-a-freshwater-dip.286639/#post-3487082
Here's a thread on acriflavine by Humblefish: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/acriflavine.282887/#post-3441660
Here's a thread on dosing copper for emergency conditions like velvet: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-copper-window.294484/
Hope this all helps. If you're like me I tend to get information overload under conditions like these. You'll do great.
Best of luck with your fish. Keep us in the loop.
~ Gary
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OP
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Sobo's Reef
Valuable Member
Thank you so much, I’ll keep you guys posted
OP
OP
Sobo's Reef
Valuable Member
So kinda weird... my tang has visibly less specks on him today then yesterday... weird
OP
OP
Sobo's Reef
Valuable Member
If I use a bucket that I use to make RO water for freshwater dip, can I use that again or do I have to clean it with bleach bc of the parasites falling off?
OP
OP
Sobo's Reef
Valuable Member
I can’t find Acriflavine at the LFS... what am I looking for exactly?
OP
OP
Sobo's Reef
Valuable Member
Sorry for all the questions... I went out, got a tank and everything I need to start... just bringing the water up to temp and getting the salinity right then I’ll dose copper and go from there. I’m really hoping these fish hang on for a lil while longer. I have work tonight from 7pm-3am.. tomorrow 5pm-3am and then Saturday 11am-7pm... ughh so stressful.
On another note... the tang is still doing well and minus a few specks as well... Anthia has also lost some specks too... hoping they’re fighting it off but who knows. Hold on little buddies!!
On another note... the tang is still doing well and minus a few specks as well... Anthia has also lost some specks too... hoping they’re fighting it off but who knows. Hold on little buddies!!
OP
OP
Sobo's Reef
Valuable Member
Big G
captain dunsel
Either of these will work. I prefer Ruby Reef Rally it has a couple additives not found in Acriflavine MS
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