Help! Water parameters are getting me frustrated…

[diamondreef]

Hello,

So I have a 25g JBJ Biocube. It was doing pretty good until recently. Been having issues with Phosphates and Alkalinity. So I’ve been going to the LFS weekly and having them test everything. Asking what I should do or not do. I went in yesterday expecting my Alk to have dropped and it went back up! Came home and did a water change, changed the sock, added GFO and switched from flakes to pellets. I stopped feeding all extras a couple weeks ago until parameters are better like suggested by the LFS.
Now, corals that have been doing well even with the swings in parameters are all closed up and not happy. I just took the GFO out because idk what to do right now and I have no idea why this is happening.

Last few weeks of water tests below:

9/22/21
Salinity- 1.022
No3- 10
Po4- .28
Alk- 10.9

9/25/21
No3- 20
Po4- .22

9/29/21
No3- 5
Po4- 0.2
Ca- 470
Alk- 12.1

10/6/21
Salinity- 1.024
No3- 2.5
Po4- 0
Alk- 12.1

10/9/21
Salinity- 1.025
No3- 2.5
Po4- 0.57
Ca- 470
Alk- 10.2
Mg- 1350

10/13/21
Salinity- 1.025
No3- 25
Po4- .32
Ca- 450
Alk- 12.5
Mg- 1290

Someone please offer some suggestions before I cry lol… I’ve been doing everything the LFS has recommended for the last couple months to try and get my water stable and it’s been everything but that.

 

[diamondreef]

And now all of a sudden my Tomini Tang has some white ich spots. But not on his gills.. on his fins face and tail.

 

[diamondreef]

There was one dose of vibrant near the end of September. Not sure the exact date at the moment.. Then was told to feed heavy at some point when everything dropped… so fed flakes, frozen food, phyto feast occasionally.. but not every day with all that.. and then to cut back and that’s where I’m at now .. have just been feeding flakes last couple weeks (prob too much though) and switched to a small amount pellets this morning.

 

[flagg37]

Sorry to hear things are going poorly for you. Those numbers indeed are concerning. In a 25 gallon tank it can be challenged to keep things stable but not impossible. When I had my 29 gallon tank, I didn’t dose any of the major elements (CA, alk, or mag) but was able to keep things stable with water changes. Are you making your own saltwater or buying it from the lfs? Can you do a 100% (or as near to as possible) water change? Do you have an ATO?

 

[diamondreef]

Sorry to hear things are going poorly for you. Those numbers indeed are concerning. In a 25 gallon tank it can be challenged to keep things stable but not impossible. When I had my 29 gallon tank, I didn’t dose any of the major elements (CA, alk, or mag) but was able to keep things stable with water changes. Are you making your own saltwater or buying it from the lfs? Can you do a 100% (or as near to as possible) water change? Do you have an ATO?

I do have an ATO. It’s off atm because I need to get more. I don’t currently make my own water but I do go to the same LFS store now. We generally do 5 gallon water changes weekly.

 

[fishguy242]

hi, are you mixing your own salt,or buying pre mixed water ?

 

[Reefahholic]

So a couple things. Some of your numbers are swinging pretty drastically

Measure the amount of food you feed. Looks like you’re possibly over feeding.

Are you dosing ALK? That number should be more stable. If dosing, reduce the dose.

Make sure to test the parameters at the same time daily. Pick a time and stick with it.

If mixing your own saltwater, make sure to mix the exact same way every time. Same salinity, temp, etc.

If the LFS is supplying you water. Avoid that store. Buy a RODI unit.

 

[Reefahholic]

I do have an ATO. It’s off atm because I need to get more. I don’t currently make my own water but I do go to the same LFS store now. We generally do 5 gallon water changes weekly.

Buy an RODI unit. Must have for every serious reefer. Wink Wink

 

[Reefahholic]

Issues:

Salinity is swinging because ATO is off.

Buying water from LFS which is probably different ALK every batch.

Over feeding.

Testing is likely done at random times.

 

[diamondreef]

I don’t have an RODI or make my own water currently because I’m in a crappy apartment and have a toddler. I buy salt water from the LFS. And I do know we were over feeding a bit but have been cutting back for sure. I just don’t understand how my alk went up so much after a water change.. and we don’t dose anything in the tank currently.

 

[Smite]

It looks like you're getting your water from your LFS and also having them do you parameter tests for you? Or are you doing testing yourself as well?

If you're not testing yourself, start there. Salifert is and extremely easy to use test kit, specially for alkalinity. They run about 18-20 at my LFS. Start with testing your alk and salinity yourself. That's going to be your best bet at seeing true trends and being able to see what's happening daily. I'm not sure what they are testing with but there are variances in test kits (even from same brand but kit to kit, how many do they go through a week? aka Is it even coming out of the same kit week to week?) and also tester errors. If you get your own kit and develop your own routine for testing that will eliminate possible testing erros.


They are mixing your water, all the more reason to test yourself. You could be swinging your parameters with those water changes if their salt mix is not consistent.

Eventually you will want to start mixing your own water, and getting a RO/DI system but it's a pretty big expense. Specially with the amount of water you'll be making for a 25g tank.

 

[diamondreef]

Issues:

Salinity is swinging because ATO is off.

Buying water from LFS which is probably different ALK every batch.

Over feeding.

Testing is likely done at random times.

I turned the ATO this morning so it hasn’t been off long.
Def think we were over feeding and have cut back in the last couple weeks.

 

[diamondreef]

It looks like you're getting your water from your LFS and also having them do you parameter tests for you? Or are you doing testing yourself as well?

If you're not testing yourself, start there. Salifert is and extremely easy to use test kit, specially for alkalinity. They run about 18-20 at my LFS. Start with testing your alk and salinity yourself. That's going to be your best bet at seeing true trends and being able to see what's happening daily. I'm not sure what they are testing with but there are variances in test kits (even from same brand but kit to kit, how many do they go through a week? aka Is it even coming out of the same kit week to week?) and also tester errors. If you get your own kit and develop your own routine for testing that will eliminate possible testing erros.


They are mixing your water, all the more reason to test yourself. You could be swinging your parameters with those water changes if their salt mix is not consistent.

Eventually you will want to start mixing your own water, and getting a RO/DI system but it's a pretty big expense. Specially with the amount of water you'll be making for a 25g tank.

Yes to all that. Right after starting up the tank and acquiring a lot of things.. we had a bit of a financial crisis we’re still recovering from (scam and a long story) so I haven’t been able to stock up on test kits or the Hanna testers I’ve been wanting. They use Salifert tests and their tanks are the best in the area. I actually just got hired there but haven’t started yet lol. I’m pretty sure they keep up with their water well but who knows. They even tested the alk twice but it was a newer employee so part of me wonders if that’s why. Once I start this job I can definitely get all the test kits and things lol. But the scam and slow months with my business came at the worst time sadly. I think I’m going to atleast try and get an alkalinity test kit this week. Also trying to have someone come by and check things out here for me.

 

[MaxTremors]

Are you dosing anything? Or just water changes? How old is the tank? What corals and fish do you have? And what kind of rock did you use (real, wet live rock, or dry rock)?

I would really recommend you get your own test kits and start making your own water (get an RODI unit). I have seen and heard of enough bad batches of lfs water that I just don’t trust them, plus I like to be able to mix my water to my specifications. And as far as testing, you really don’t want to be depending on the lfs to troubleshoot for you and in the case of an emergency you really do need to be able to test your water (you should be keeping a log/spreadsheet of all of your test results). IMO it’s just one of the requirements of keeping corals, it’s akin to getting your dog it’s shots, its just part of owning an animal (in this case corals and fish).

A couple things about your results stand out. Your Alk is within range but right on the verge of being too high, I would suggest mixing your own salt water with a salt mix that mixes around 8-9, and then maintain your Alk at that level so that you have some wiggle room either way should you have a spike or a dip. Alk can do weird things in newer tanks, but it could also be user error (again, it’s hard to trust an lfs to be consistent). Your phosphates are pretty high, but I would try lowering them over time by lowering feeding and doing water changes over a few months, if you can’t get them under control that way, then try the GFO. Your nitrates are starting to get kind of high too (though not as concerning as phosphates).

I really do think the solution to your problems are to make your own water and test it yourself.

Also, and I don’t intend for this to sound harsh, as a lot of LFSes will give out bad advice to make a sale, but a Tomini tang should not be in a 24 gallon tank. Tangs need a lot of room to swim, they are very active fish, and a 24g tank that is only 18”’wide (I have the same tank, only it’s the newer 28g version) is wholly inadequate. A Tomini needs a minimum of a 75g tank (and really 120+g would be preferable). I would start looking for a new home for it now before it gets any bigger (or get started on an upgrade).

Again, I think if you get a little more hands on with the water and testing, you’ll be able to get you water stable.

 

[Reefahholic]

I turned the ATO this morning so it hasn’t been off long.
Def think we were over feeding and have cut back in the last couple weeks.

Feeding will get you in trouble quick. We all learn that.

Trust me…RODI when you get some money. BRS has cheaper base units.

Then you can buy some test kits and things will turn around.

 

[fishguy242]

Just a thought, bring in their water ,unknown to them ,and have it tested.
and agree need your own refractor to check salinity ,regularly yourself.
test kits are good idea also, alk,cal,po4 ,nitrate most important.
you can also buy bottled distilled water and salt mix , make your own water.
i see too much swing in their water.

 

[saltybees]

Patience young grasshopper, all will align in due time. First look into an rodi buddy unit, they’re reasonably priced for the 2.5g you should approximately be changing weekly, plus the few litres a week for the top ups. This will save you an enormous amount of headache in the long run, you’ll be able to consistently have your ATO reservoir full and be able to mix your own water changes, which will in turn allow you to be able to know what your parameters are going forward.

Redsea or salifert for testers, cheap and accurate. No need for Hannah’s until there’s disposable income. I used a floating hydrometer for making wine to test my SG, they’re 5$, just read what it’s calibrated for temp wise and do the basic math difference to figure out what it’ll be floating at. (Mine was 1.023=1.025 at 78)

stick to one salt, every brand will mix differently. Instant ocean is basic and reliable imo and probably the cheapest, at least where I’m from.

Don’t be discouraged, it’s a learning process and hard to start up on a budget, but once you acquire the basic tools to maintain and keep things in line it gets a heck of a lot easier.

 

[Smite]

Yes to all that. Right after starting up the tank and acquiring a lot of things.. we had a bit of a financial crisis we’re still recovering from (scam and a long story) so I haven’t been able to stock up on test kits or the Hanna testers I’ve been wanting. They use Salifert tests and their tanks are the best in the area. I actually just got hired there but haven’t started yet lol. I’m pretty sure they keep up with their water well but who knows. They even tested the alk twice but it was a newer employee so part of me wonders if that’s why. Once I start this job I can definitely get all the test kits and things lol. But the scam and slow months with my business came at the worst time sadly. I think I’m going to atleast try and get an alkalinity test kit this week. Also trying to have someone come by and check things out here for me.

Well that is a good sign they have great display tanks. Congrats on the job as well, maybe it'll come with so perks like dry goods and live goods at a discount.

Do you know what salt mix they are using? It's probably really high in ALK.

The reason I was wondering about consistency is your first number @ 1.022. That's really low and honestly it's hard to get low, easier to get higher in the SG from lack of top off. Did you maybe do a water change without unplugging the ATO?

Your corals are most likely ticked and closed from the GFO and phosphate stripping. It looks like you went form .2 (really not bad IMO) to 0 and that's not good. Then it shot back up to .3ish. I'm guessing they said zero so feed more? But maybe forgot you had been running GFO. So you removed it AND fed more. I dont' like GFO, it's to hard to control and can easily strip everything.

Testing parameters yourself and having a consistent feeding hand/habit will help get you some success and stability. I'd be feeding small amounts of frozen in a nano. Pellets and flake food tend to bump up phosphates. I haven't experienced that with frozen as much, plus it's overall a better food source.

 

[Smite]

Just a thought, bring in their water ,unknown to them ,and have it tested.
and agree need your own refractor to check salinity ,regularly yourself.
test kits are good idea also, alk,cal,po4 ,nitrate most important.
you can also buy bottled distilled water and salt mix , make your own water.
i see too much swing in their water.

This is pretty genius, lol! Could you imagine how awkward that could be? No joke, phosphates make it past TDS meters and cause problems even for the most experience reef keepers. That would be interesting to see the ALK, salinity and po4 values.

 

[diamondreef]

Are you dosing anything? Or just water changes? How old is the tank? What corals and fish do you have? And what kind of rock did you use (real, wet live rock, or dry rock)?

I would really recommend you get your own test kits and start making your own water (get an RODI unit). I have seen and heard of enough bad batches of lfs water that I just don’t trust them, plus I like to be able to mix my water to my specifications. And as far as testing, you really don’t want to be depending on the lfs to troubleshoot for you and in the case of an emergency you really do need to be able to test your water (you should be keeping a log/spreadsheet of all of your test results). IMO it’s just one of the requirements of keeping corals, it’s akin to getting your dog it’s shots, its just part of owning an animal (in this case corals and fish).

A couple things about your results stand out. Your Alk is within range but right on the verge of being too high, I would suggest mixing your own salt water with a salt mix that mixes around 8-9, and then maintain your Alk at that level so that you have some wiggle room either way should you have a spike or a dip. Alk can do weird things in newer tanks, but it could also be user error (again, it’s hard to trust an lfs to be consistent). Your phosphates are pretty high, but I would try lowering them over time by lowering feeding and doing water changes over a few months, if you can’t get them under control that way, then try the GFO. Your nitrates are starting to get kind of high too (though not as concerning as phosphates).

I really do think the solution to your problems are to make your own water and test it yourself.

Also, and I don’t intend for this to sound harsh, as a lot of LFSes will give out bad advice to make a sale, but a Tomini tang should not be in a 24 gallon tank. Tangs need a lot of room to swim, they are very active fish, and a 24g tank that is only 18”’wide (I have the same tank, only it’s the newer 28g version) is wholly inadequate. A Tomini needs a minimum of a 75g tank (and really 120+g would be preferable). I would start looking for a new home for it now before it gets any bigger (or get started on an upgrade).

Again, I think if you get a little more hands on with the water and testing, you’ll be able to get you water stable.

Yes we plan on upgrading tanks in 5/6 months when we move which is why we decided to get a small Tomini tang. And the LFS said they mix the water and test with alk at 8.. but something could have happened who knows. I’m going to look into how I can set up an area for mixing salt here in my apartment but it’s just so small lol I also have an at home baking business so that takes up most of my space away from the tank. The phosphates are coming down with water changes and waiting but the alk spiked so confused and concerned. I did try GFO yesterday but took it out today because that is really the only thing I did differently than usual and a lot of corals were ticked off shortly after adding it. And still are :/ and yesterday most of the coral that’s ticked off now was fine and happy.