HELP! What is killing our fish one by one?!?

[Wicked333Whiskey]

Wicked_Whiskey​

New member​

• 21 minutes ago
• #1

I am posting this for someone else because he is not very tech savvy & doesn’t have the patience to sit & type in detail so I offered to help but he is in desperate need of a diagnosis & possible treatment of his fish that are all of a sudden dying one by one. I will provide as much detail as I can but am not familiar with all he aquarium lingo so please bear with me. He started out with 2 Ocellaris Clown fish, a Blue Tang, a Blenny, a Flame Hawk, a File fish, a Striped Damsel, a handful of Hermit Crabs, a few Turbo Snails, various Coral, some Bristle Worms & 2 or more possible Mantis Shrimp (have physically seen one but hearing clicking coming from different rocks. Another problem but for another time). He has had these fish for about a year & a half with little to no problems until lately. It all started about about a month ago. All fish started acting a little unusual. Slight difference in behavior & routine. The first one that left us was the Blenny. We noticed it facing a corner one day & not moving around as usual & the next day just disappeared. Then the Flame Hawk started not eating & was hiding most of the time. After a few days we noticed it’s mouth seemed stuck open & then about a week later it was out in front, down on the sand & kind of rocking from side to side & when swimming he was mostly on his side laying sort of horizontally as he swam & after almost a week of that he started hiding more & was breathing much more rapid. A few days later, he passed. Now the female Clown is bad off but with several different symptoms. (I have 2 short videos to post of her, one from today & one from 3 days ago, once I figure out how to add that to here). About a week ago she started not eating & we noticed that her mouth was stuck open too except her lower jaw seemed to stick out a bit further & she had a reddish/purple mark on her chin area & it was a few millimeters long in a diagonal line & she started breathing fast & we see what looks like a hole through her cheek on one side, so he put her in a quarantine tank with no rocks only sand (which I’m pretty sure he needs to remove as well but not sure if that’s important) & later that day she started swimming around erratic & almost like she was blind bumping into things & has flashed a few times since then. We also noticed what looked like some reddish/purple coloring under the skin around the gill area. She still is not eating. She mostly stays at the top now & faces downwards a lot. Today she is still breathing fast. We did about a 60-65% water change a couple hours ago & she now sometimes comes back down to the bottom of the tank & sometimes up top with head facing downwards. And now on her chin there is what looks like some sort of brownish slime hanging from her chin where the purple/reddish line was & her mouth is still stuck open & she occasionally will swim very erratically all of a sudden & has flashed a few times since the water change. And now the Blue Tang seems to have his mouth starting to stay stuck open & is not swimming around & hasn’t really eaten much for 2 days now & is just at the bottom of the tank rocking back & forth. What is happening to all the fish?!? The tank owner is constantly checking water quality & loves & dotes on this tank constantly. What went wrong & can we save any of these fish? The first video was taken 3 days ago. I tried to get it as clear as possible but you all know I’m sure that it is difficult to film anything in water & get a super clear picture quality. I will have to post the second video later. Lost the one I had & right now she is a place that I can’t get a good view of her so I will try again later.

 

[OldRed1]

A cursory Google search suggests:

• Ammonia poisoning. High levels of ammonia can buildup in your fish tank. This often occurs when a tank is newly set up or when too many new fish are added at the same time. Symptoms include red or purple gills and/or fish gasping for breath at the water surface. The ammonia level can be reduced by a neutralizer and by a 50% water change. To prevent this from occurring, stock your tank slowly, do not overfeed, remove uneaten food, and change water regularly. Test water frequently to catch problems like this early.

 

[OldRed1]

The tank owner is constantly checking water quality

Could you post the actual parameters of the tank?

 

[flyfisher2]

would like to know tank size.
Tank has been up and running for over a year and you haven’t made any significant changes recently?
Power outages?
Shut down the circulation for any period of time?

What parameters are you testing and what test kits you’re using.
Would like to know more about those Mantis Shrimp…

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

Usually they're just pistol shrimp and not mantis but could be! Lol.
I've heard of chain reactions from fish deaths and spikes causing the next fish to go ect. But yes I'd like to know more.
I know you've said a lot and thank you but we need more.
Hopefully by the a.m. some of the trusted fish Dr's and experts will get on here with some questions for you.
-d

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

As others have mentioned, post the tank parameters.

I agree that it is probably pistol shrimp not mantis shrimp you’re hearing (otherwise you’d probably be down a lot more fish and/or inverts, and the “symptoms” would be very different).

I’m definitely not an expert on fish disease, but this sounds like it would probably warrant an emergency tag on the post (particularly given that you say you’ve lost one fish and are probably about to lose two more).

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 - I know you two are the ones usually brought in to help with this sort of thing, so I hope you don’t mind the tagging. Any thoughts?

 

[MnFish1]

IMHO - as others have said the parameters are important.

I'm not sure why ammonia would be rising in a cycled tank (unless you left dead fish in for a while).

The symptoms are difficult - without pictures. But - assuming your parameters are 'ok' - which I'm going to assume they are (and everything below assumes they are)

- I would consider preparing a hospital tank and prepare to treat with a broad spectrum antibiotic or other medications (since the red areas, etc you've noted suggest bacterial infection - and there may be other diagnoses also)

- This could also be flukes - you could consider a FW dip/prazipro.

- 0f course parasitic infections - can also be present - if there was some other 'stress' that occurred - is there anything you've noticed (or your friend) - temp change, etc.

Pictures will be important. Sorry your friend is going through all of this. Will also await some other comments

 

[MnFish1]

PS - welcome to R2R.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Wicked_Whiskey​

New member​

• 21 minutes ago
• #1

I am posting this for someone else because he is not very tech savvy & doesn’t have the patience to sit & type in detail so I offered to help but he is in desperate need of a diagnosis & possible treatment of his fish that are all of a sudden dying one by one. I will provide as much detail as I can but am not familiar with all he aquarium lingo so please bear with me. He started out with 2 Ocellaris Clown fish, a Blue Tang, a Blenny, a Flame Hawk, a File fish, a Striped Damsel, a handful of Hermit Crabs, a few Turbo Snails, various Coral, some Bristle Worms & 2 or more possible Mantis Shrimp (have physically seen one but hearing clicking coming from different rocks. Another problem but for another time). He has had these fish for about a year & a half with little to no problems until lately. It all started about about a month ago. All fish started acting a little unusual. Slight difference in behavior & routine. The first one that left us was the Blenny. We noticed it facing a corner one day & not moving around as usual & the next day just disappeared. Then the Flame Hawk started not eating & was hiding most of the time. After a few days we noticed it’s mouth seemed stuck open & then about a week later it was out in front, down on the sand & kind of rocking from side to side & when swimming he was mostly on his side laying sort of horizontally as he swam & after almost a week of that he started hiding more & was breathing much more rapid. A few days later, he passed. Now the female Clown is bad off but with several different symptoms. (I have 2 short videos to post of her, one from today & one from 3 days ago, once I figure out how to add that to here). About a week ago she started not eating & we noticed that her mouth was stuck open too except her lower jaw seemed to stick out a bit further & she had a reddish/purple mark on her chin area & it was a few millimeters long in a diagonal line & she started breathing fast & we see what looks like a hole through her cheek on one side, so he put her in a quarantine tank with no rocks only sand (which I’m pretty sure he needs to remove as well but not sure if that’s important) & later that day she started swimming around erratic & almost like she was blind bumping into things & has flashed a few times since then. We also noticed what looked like some reddish/purple coloring under the skin around the gill area. She still is not eating. She mostly stays at the top now & faces downwards a lot. Today she is still breathing fast. We did about a 60-65% water change a couple hours ago & she now sometimes comes back down to the bottom of the tank & sometimes up top with head facing downwards. And now on her chin there is what looks like some sort of brownish slime hanging from her chin where the purple/reddish line was & her mouth is still stuck open & she occasionally will swim very erratically all of a sudden & has flashed a few times since the water change. And now the Blue Tang seems to have his mouth starting to stay stuck open & is not swimming around & hasn’t really eaten much for 2 days now & is just at the bottom of the tank rocking back & forth. What is happening to all the fish?!? The tank owner is constantly checking water quality & loves & dotes on this tank constantly. What went wrong & can we save any of these fish? The first video was taken 3 days ago. I tried to get it as clear as possible but you all know I’m sure that it is difficult to film anything in water & get a super clear picture quality. I will have to post the second video later. Lost the one I had & right now she is a place that I can’t get a good view of her so I will try again later.

Hi, the variety of symptoms may indicate multiple problems with these fish. That makes remote diagnosis almost impossible. That said, I think some issues can be ruled out: since the fish have been in the tank problem free for a year and a half, you can rule out ammonia issues, as well as any diseases caused by lack of quarantine.

What size in the aquarium?
Are all of the invertebrates OK? (If so, this indicates the issue is a fish disease)
Were any fish or other animals added recently?

The open mouthed breathing can be a sign of lack of oxygen, velvet or flukes. Lack of oxygen would only happen is something drastically changed in the tank's operation - a filter was removed, a pump broke down, etc. Fish living in an aquarium for a year and a half don't suddenly have oxygen issues for no reason. Velvet causes rapid breathing and few other symptoms. However, fish with that die in a day or two and most of the fish would be affected at the same time.

That leaves gill flukes with possible secondary bacterial infection as been the most likely issue here. Once fish loss has begun due to gill flukes, it is very difficult to cure the affected fish - what happens is that if you kill off the flukes, that leaves hundreds of tiny holes in the fish's gills and they literally bleed to death. Still, if you don't remove the flukes, the fish will still die.

If it is a fluke issue, I would give the affected fish each a 5 minute freshwater dip, and if they survive, treat the tank two times with prazipro, 9 days apart.


Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Any pics and/or video under white lighting?

 

[Wicked333Whiskey]

Thank you all for replying to my post! I am sad to say, my friend lost his Blue Tang…..R.I.P. It was a really awesome fish, it will be missed. The female clown is still with us but sadly declining. I’m on my way to my friend’s place so I can ask about his parameters & test kits, lighting, etc. I do know that the current tank size is 90 gallons & he has been using hat tank for almost a year I believe but will verify when I get there. Before that he was using a 75 gallon. The hospital tank that the female clown is in, is 25 or 30 gallon. I will also add sump size, type of protein skimmer, etc. And I do know that the only new fish added to the tank was the file fish & he got that one because he has an outbreak of Aptasia. Forgot to mention that in the original post. Don’t know if that is part of the problem or not. And the type of Blenny was a Scooter Blenny I believe? The first day that the Blenny went missing, we looked for him & found nothing. There are a bunch of Bristle worms in the tank (and in my opinion far too many but not sure if they are a problem) so we figured the worms took care of the deceased Blenny overnight. We moved all the rock & there was no trace of him. And as far as the Mantis Shrimp….I have actually seen it. After looking the Mantis Shrimp up online I’m almost certain it is a Mantis Shrimp although I have not seen one online that is the same coloring as this one I saw in the tank. It is a maroon/purplish color almost in a tie-dye like pattern. It was a beautiful color but the head was like a dark grayish/ dark blue color. It came out briefly once to take a krill I was offering. We are going to try to set up a trap to see if we can catch it. I believe it is what is causing the depletion of the hermit crab population. We find lots of broken shells & broken rock in the tank. The rock is all live rock from Florida. Have also seen a few crabs pop up now & then but then they too disappear eventually. Assuming because of possible Mantis Shrimp. I say “possible because the head seemed a little tiny bit different from Mantis Shrimp pics that I have seen online but it was such a brief moment that I saw it so I can’t be 100% sure. Not sure what type of filter he is using but will update in a bit, but it has been the same one for the entire 2 years & I don’t believe any power heads have failed or heaters. I will update more info in an hour or so once I am over there. My friend is so devastate about all this, I feel terrible for him. He has been doing this reefing thing on & off for about 25 years.

 

[Wicked333Whiskey]

Ok. I have LOTS more info for you guys. It may even be too much but I don’t think that’s a bad thing either. After this post I will do pics & a video or two. As I said before the current tank is a 90 gallon ( I will post a pic of the tank). This was a used tank & it was a freshwater tank that housed Cichlid (not sure on spelling of that) fish & then sat outside on a back patio in the sun & the tank water was left in the tank & that caused minerals to get imbedded into the glass as the water slowly evaporated out. When my friend took the tank he tried scrubbing the minerals off with all kinds of remedies & even a couple of chemicals but was unsuccessful at removing them. So the view of the fish is not clear through the bottom half of the tank. Not sure if all this is important but I thought the more info, the better. He thoroughly cleaned out the chemicals before adding salt water & the fish & corals & sand & rocks that he has had. He has been using this tank for almost a year. He previously was using a 75 gallon tank that was purchased brand new & used that for about 6-7 months & before that, he was using a 40 gallon tank that he had on hand & used that for about 3-4 months & before that, he was using the 25 gallon tank that is now the hospital tank. When he started with the 25 gallon, he was using a Flugal canister filter which is what is still on the 25 gallon today. When he went to the 40 gallon, he used the same filter. When he went to the 75 gallon tank he introduced a sump. And is using the same sump on the 90 gallon today. That Sump is an Eshopps RS 100. He uses one filter sock in the sump & thoroughly cleans that once a week. He also uses a Protein Skimmer & that is an Aquarium Systems for a 75 gallon tank. And he says that he uses an Overflow. (Not quite what that means, but he said to mention that). As I stated before in previous post, he has live rock & live sand that was purchased from Florida & has used the same rock & sand through all tanks. He uses 2 brands of salt mix but does not mix them together when doing water changes. He mainly uses Instant Ocean salt & occasionally uses Coral Pro Salt to do water changes. And speaking of that he does about 25-30% water changes once a week at the very least. If Nitrates become high before that weekly water change he will do an extra one in between. When he does the water changes, he adds about 1/4 capful of Prime to the water. Test kit for water is a Jappy Test Kit. He tests the water about 3 days out of the week.
Current Water Parameters:
- Salinity: 1.025-1.026 or 34ppm
- Alkalinity: 11.5
- Calcium: 420
- Magnesium: 1350 ppm
- Nitrate: 9 ( He is aware that this is high but there are no fish currently in this tank except for the File Fish & I told him he still needs to bring that down regardless & will address this issue the minute he gets home from work)
- Nitrite: ? (He forgot to tell me. I have sent him a text & am awaiting a reply)
- Ammonia: ? (He says this test kit does not have a test for that & I said Omg, I believe that is an important one to know especially right now so he is going to get something for that A.S.A.P.)
- Water Temp: 79-80 degrees Fahrenheit
As for lighting he has 2 Flugal light bars, one is 1100watts the other is 500 watts
As for Power Heads: he has several, not sure on brand name, am awaiting a response on that as well if that is even important.
As for Food: he alternates between Ocean Nutrition Prime Reef Flakes & Frozen Mysis Shrimp & on occasion will add San Francisco Bay Brand Reef Plankton that is also kept frozen.
There are 10 hermit crabs & 4 turbo grazers in the tank, but he is having to replace these fairly often. He finds empty & sometimes broken shells after a while. Due to the Mantis Shrimp maybe? There are various corals in the tank but did not get specific names but can add that later, & what I believe to be too many Bristle Worms in tank as well. Seeing lots of baby bristle worms lately. Also started seeing what kind of looks like little white starfish looking organisms on the front glass but with only 3 appendages. I’m thinking these are maybe tiny first stages of Bristle Worms? He is also now seeing tiny whiteish looking shrimp (only a few millimeters long) that move around on their sides. And just started seeing one or 2 tiny whiteish almost clear little creatures crawling around sand floor, Not sure how to describe them other than them being also only a few millimeters in length but look like some sort of insect or bug. He said that he also has seen a grayish shrimp resembling a Mantis Shrimp but I could not describe it because I have not seen that yet, but is also living within the live rock. There is a purple color Coralline algae growing throughout main tank & he also obtained a Pencil Urchin within the live rock but that was kept in the sump but is now in a separate tank due to it’s appetite for some corals. I have a fondness for this Urchin & told him I would gladly take it off his hands if he doesn’t want it, which will more than likely happen soon, but anyways, not important. Moving on…. I forgot to ask him what the Parameters are in the hospital tank but the one thing I do know is that the Salinity in that tank is low & is at 1.023-1.024 fluctuating. I will ask for the rest of that info as soon as I hear from him.
Upon doing some research before coming here he read about a product called Microbe-Lift Nite-Out II & purchased that assuming that his problem may be due to Ammonia Poisoning based on the symptoms he was seeing & what recommendations were for that. He did do one dose of this but has not continued because he wanted to find out for sure if this was even needed & realized that he needs to test for the Ammonia & KH levels for this to work properly. So is awaiting advice on that as well.
And one last thing to add, he said, he did not notice any slime coating coming off of Clown fish except for around the chin area directly where there previously was that reddish/purple mark on her chin. It now looks like a large brownish spot on her chin & she is occasionally flashing. I think that’s about all the info I have. If he or I think of anything more, I will add another post or if anyone needs any other info, please let me know. I apologize if this was too much info or if any of this info was not needed. But again, I figured, the more, the better.

 

[Wicked333Whiskey]

Oh! And this question is for Jay Hemdal……..For the 5 minute fresh water dip, would this be a one time dip or?

 

[Wicked333Whiskey]

As others have mentioned, post the tank parameters.

I agree that it is probably pistol shrimp not mantis shrimp you’re hearing (otherwise you’d probably be down a lot more fish and/or inverts, and the “symptoms” would be very different).

I’m definitely not an expert on fish disease, but this sounds like it would probably warrant an emergency tag on the post (particularly given that you say you’ve lost one fish and are probably about to lose two more).

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081 - I know you two are the ones usually brought in to help with this sort of thing, so I hope you don’t mind the tagging. Any thoughts?

Thank you for tagging Jay Hemdal & vetteguy for me. Greatly appreciated!

 

[Wicked333Whiskey]

Hi, the variety of symptoms may indicate multiple problems with these fish. That makes remote diagnosis almost impossible. That said, I think some issues can be ruled out: since the fish have been in the tank problem free for a year and a half, you can rule out ammonia issues, as well as any diseases caused by lack of quarantine.

What size in the aquarium?
Are all of the invertebrates OK? (If so, this indicates the issue is a fish disease)
Were any fish or other animals added recently?

The open mouthed breathing can be a sign of lack of oxygen, velvet or flukes. Lack of oxygen would only happen is something drastically changed in the tank's operation - a filter was removed, a pump broke down, etc. Fish living in an aquarium for a year and a half don't suddenly have oxygen issues for no reason. Velvet causes rapid breathing and few other symptoms. However, fish with that die in a day or two and most of the fish would be affected at the same time.

That leaves gill flukes with possible secondary bacterial infection as been the most likely issue here. Once fish loss has begun due to gill flukes, it is very difficult to cure the affected fish - what happens is that if you kill off the flukes, that leaves hundreds of tiny holes in the fish's gills and they literally bleed to death. Still, if you don't remove the flukes, the fish will still die.

If it is a fluke issue, I would give the affected fish each a 5 minute freshwater dip, and if they survive, treat the tank two times with prazipro, 9 days apart.


Jay

I just realized I was probably supposed to “reply” here but I just added a couple more posts instead, not knowing. My apologies if that was not what I was supposed to do. Am very new here. Still trying to figure things out here. Please let me know which way is better.

 

[Wicked333Whiskey]

Any pics and/or video under white lighting?

Will be posting those next.

 

[Wicked333Whiskey]

Usually they're just pistol shrimp and not mantis but could be! Lol.
I've heard of chain reactions from fish deaths and spikes causing the next fish to go ect. But yes I'd like to know more.
I know you've said a lot and thank you but we need more.
Hopefully by the a.m. some of the trusted fish Dr's and experts will get on here with some questions for you.
-d

I posted lots more info. Thank you for replying.

 

[Wicked333Whiskey]

would like to know tank size.
Tank has been up and running for over a year and you haven’t made any significant changes recently?
Power outages?
Shut down the circulation for any period of time?

What parameters are you testing and what test kits you’re using.
Would like to know more about those Mantis Shrimp…

I posted lots more info, on Mantis Shrimp & current problem. Thank you for replying!

 

[MnFish1]

I posted lots more info, on Mantis Shrimp & current problem. Thank you for replying!

The new information did not particularly help (but appreciated). Pictures are paramount. Second - if fish are dying rapidly, a hospital tank should be prepared - and the fish moved to that. That will also make pictures easier to take. Then a decision can be made about what treatment.

Mantis shrimp can cause multiple injuries (small) - and you will not necessarily see the 'attack'. Another 'plan' would be to set a trap and get rid of (ask your LFS if they want it) - the mantis shrimp.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Oh! And this question is for Jay Hemdal……..For the 5 minute fresh water dip, would this be a one time dip or?

Yes, typically FW dips are one time, just to see if large flukes fall off, and then, FW dips can buy you some time. There is a technique where you dip

Jay