Help with auto dosing please.

[Jonathan lee]

So after 10 years I finally decided to get an auto doser. Now i was tracking my alk and calcium for 4 days to find out how much to dose daily and i saw a trend where my alk drops 0.3 a day. Calcium is abit weird. Anyway today was the 5th day of testing. First day alk was 8 then 7.7 then 7.3 then 7. I expected alk to be 6.7 today but it was still at 7. Tested 3 times to make sure and yes its still 7. So its been at 7 for 2 days now. Wonder why alk had a stable drop of around 0.3 a day then today it didnt drop at all? Cause of the low calcium? My calcium is also low and clearly some corals dont look happy since i stopped dosing calcium while doing this process. Btw im using aquaforest reef salt and my mag is really high for some reason without any dosing. Over 1500. I even sent water to test at 2 lfs’s and they said its way above 1500. Using aquaforest and salifert test kits. Both have no colour change even at 0.00ml.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

If I am not mistaken there are probably two things at play. Lower alk usually means lower ph which will slow the calcification process. Two- lower alk means less alk to calcify in first place.

 

[Jonathan lee]

If I am not mistaken there are probably two things at play. Lower alk usually means lower ph which will slow the calcification process. Two- lower alk means less alk to calcify in first place.

Ph is 8.2. Im also guessing since my calcium is low and corals not happy they wont be taking up alk too?

 

[JNalley]

Ph is 8.2. Im also guessing since my calcium is low and corals not happy they wont be taking up alk too?

did you mix the AF salt before making water? This isn't exclusive to AF, but nearly all cases of extremely high or extremely low Mag levels I think are due to stratification of the salt. Magnesium tends to bunch up, it's heavier than sodium but lighter than calcium, but its particle size is also bigger typically. Usually, the cure for this is to turn the bag over a few times to mix it up or dump it in a bucket and do the same thing.

 

[Jonathan lee]

did you mix the AF salt before making water? This isn't exclusive to AF, but nearly all cases of extremely high or extremely low Mag levels I think are due to stratification of the salt. Magnesium tends to bunch up, it's heavier than sodium but lighter than calcium, but its particle size is also bigger typically. Usually, the cure for this is to turn the bag over a few times to mix it up or dump it in a bucket and do the same thing.

Yes i mix the bucket. I even pulled the bag out of the bucket and mixed it up. Easily over 40 times tossing the bag around. Still get the same reading. Anyway mag isn’t the only thing thats off. My freshly mixed water alk is also only 7. I tested it BEFORE mixing the bucket to see if it made a difference. Before mixing the bucket it was 6.8. After mixing it was 7. If it was close to 7.7 id be happy. Ive checked the batch number on their website and its supposed to be 7.7dkh. Tested at 35ppt with a calibrated refractometer. They will say we’re not using seawater refractometers and all so it wont be exactly 35ppt but even so, 0.7 difference is alot. I’ve searched about this low alk and high mag issue before and others have it too. Even my lfs told me to stop using aquaforest salt even tho they sell it. Unfortunately i bought a new bucket 2 weeks ago to try one more time… if i have a problem with this batch as well then I’ll have to change brands next time. I use AF supplements, additives and all and will still be using them. Just wont use the salt anymore. My snails barely move and eat like that used to. Normally would see them on the glass moving around alot with their little mouths kissing the glass. Now all they do is sit and stare. Sometimes they dont even move for 2 days lol. And then i found out high mag can make snails lethargic….

 

[gbroadbridge]

So after 10 years I finally decided to get an auto doser. Now i was tracking my alk and calcium for 4 days to find out how much to dose daily and i saw a trend where my alk drops 0.3 a day. Calcium is abit weird. Anyway today was the 5th day of testing. First day alk was 8 then 7.7 then 7.3 then 7. I expected alk to be 6.7 today but it was still at 7. Tested 3 times to make sure and yes its still 7. So its been at 7 for 2 days now. Wonder why alk had a stable drop of around 0.3 a day then today it didnt drop at all? Cause of the low calcium? My calcium is also low and clearly some corals dont look happy since i stopped dosing calcium while doing this process. Btw im using aquaforest reef salt and my mag is really high for some reason without any dosing. Over 1500. I even sent water to test at 2 lfs’s and they said its way above 1500. Using aquaforest and salifert test kits. Both have no colour change even at 0.00ml.

Alkalinity consumption tends to jump around a lot.

One day the tank may consume 0.3, the next day none, and then suddenly 0.5. There are a lot of complex chemical reactions occurring all the time.

Another issue is that hobby grade test kits are not particularly accurate, and compounding that neither are most people performing the tests.

Do the same test twice and you may well end up with 0.3dkh difference just due to testing variability.

The bottom line is look at changes over a longer period and keep a log book so you can calculate average daily consumption.

Don't try to 'chase numbers' and just stick to one test kit.

 

[JNalley]

Yes i mix the bucket. I even pulled the bag out of the bucket and mixed it up. Easily over 40 times tossing the bag around. Still get the same reading. Anyway mag isn’t the only thing thats off. My freshly mixed water alk is also only 7. I tested it BEFORE mixing the bucket to see if it made a difference. Before mixing the bucket it was 6.8. After mixing it was 7. If it was close to 7.7 id be happy. Ive checked the batch number on their website and its supposed to be 7.7dkh. Tested at 35ppt with a calibrated refractometer. They will say we’re not using seawater refractometers and all so it wont be exactly 35ppt but even so, 0.7 difference is alot. I’ve searched about this low alk and high mag issue before and others have it too. Even my lfs told me to stop using aquaforest salt even tho they sell it. Unfortunately i bought a new bucket 2 weeks ago to try one more time… if i have a problem with this batch as well then I’ll have to change brands next time. I use AF supplements, additives and all and will still be using them. Just wont use the salt anymore. My snails barely move and eat like that used to. Normally would see them on the glass moving around alot with their little mouths kissing the glass. Now all they do is sit and stare. Sometimes they dont even move for 2 days lol. And then i found out high mag can make snails lethargic….

I use the ESV B-Ionic Seawater System. I switched from TMPro because TMPro was 7 dKH, and I wanted something closer to 9 without having to dose, plus I'm lazy and prefer to put in extra effort upfront in order to save cleaning something in the future, and nearly every other salt leaves residue from precipitation or other things in the mixing barrel. Not ESV (or TM before the Turkey fiasco), plus it mixes super quick, and being a 4 part mix it gives you pretty much total control.

 

[Jonathan lee]

Alkalinity consumption tends to jump around a lot.

One day the tank may consume 0.3, the next day none, and then suddenly 0.5. There are a lot of complex chemical reactions occurring all the time.

Another issue is that hobby grade test kits are not particularly accurate, and compounding that neither are most people performing the tests.

Do the same test twice and you may well end up with 0.3dkh difference just due to testing variability.

The bottom line is look at changes over a longer period and keep a log book so you can calculate average daily consumption.

Don't try to 'chase numbers' and just stick to one test kit.

Okay so lets say i have to dose 15ml a day to raise alk by 0.3. So i set my doser to dose 15ml daily. If on the days my alk dont drop, this means the alk would go up by 0.3 instead of being stable, no? I know they said test on the first day and 4th day then just get the average amount used per day and dose that way. I tested everyday instead on resting on 1st then 4th day to see how much is used daily cause I thought its more accurate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I use the ESV B-Ionic Seawater System. I switched from TMPro because TMPro was 7 dKH, and I wanted something closer to 9 without having to dose, plus I'm lazy and prefer to put in extra effort upfront in order to save cleaning something in the future, and nearly every other salt leaves residue from precipitation or other things in the mixing barrel. Not ESV (or TM before the Turkey fiasco), plus it mixes super quick, and being a 4 part mix it gives you pretty much total control.

I have nothing against the ESV salt, but if you are lazy and want tm pro to have alk of 9, you could just add a little baking soda to it instead of adjusting the multi parts of ESV.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Okay so lets say i have to dose 15ml a day to raise alk by 0.3. So i set my doser to dose 15ml daily. If on the days my alk dont drop, this means the alk would go up by 0.3 instead of being stable, no? I know they said test on the first day and 4th day then just get the average amount used per day and dose that way. I tested everyday instead on resting on 1st then 4th day to see how much is used daily cause I thought its more accurate.

There typically aren’t days on and days off of alk decline. If you see that it may just be due to accuracy and precision limitations of the test.

 

[Jonathan lee]

There typically aren’t days on and days off of alk decline. If you see that it may just be due to accuracy and precision limitations of the test.

Would alk consumption stop or drop if the corals are not happy? Like if not really opening as per usual.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Would alk consumption stop or drop if the corals are not happy? Like if not really opening as per usual.

It is possible that physically irritating corals may alter calcification, but I’ve never seen data that showed it (or not).

 

[Jonathan lee]

It is possible that physically irritating corals may alter calcification, but I’ve never seen data that showed it (or not).

I dont know why but yesterday my alk was 7.3. Today morning its 7.6. Tested twice today to be sure. How is it going up without dosing lol

 

[gbroadbridge]

I dont know why but yesterday my alk was 7.3. Today morning its 7.6. Tested twice today to be sure. How is it going up without dosing lol

Alkalinity cannot increase unless you are dosing Alk or you are carbon dosing to reduce nitrates.

 

[Gatorpa]

I dont know why but yesterday my alk was 7.3. Today morning its 7.6. Tested twice today to be sure. How is it going up without dosing lol

If you aren’t dosing and Alk goes up then it’s the test.

 

[Jonathan lee]

If you aren’t dosing and Alk goes up then it’s the test.

That really weird cause i do 2-3 alk test each time i test. And the result is always the same. 11am i do 2 or 3 alk test back to back, 4pm i do another 2 alk test back to back again. Im basically testing alk 5 times a day. Im very sure it was 7.3 yesterday cause i wrote it down. And i tested at a minimum 3 times to make sure it was 7.3. Today tested alk back to back 2 times and both times i got 7.6. Using aquaforest test kit. Its about to finish so im buying another one soon. I heard the test can go bad after being open for a few months? It expires in 2 months i think.

 

[gbroadbridge]

That really weird cause i do 2-3 alk test each time i test. And the result is always the same. 11am i do 2 or 3 alk test back to back, 4pm i do another 2 alk test back to back again. Im basically testing alk 5 times a day. Im very sure it was 7.3 yesterday cause i wrote it down. And i tested at a minimum 3 times to make sure it was 7.3. Today tested alk back to back 2 times and both times i got 7.6. Using aquaforest test kit. Its about to finish so im buying another one soon. I heard the test can go bad after being open for a few months? It expires in 2 months i think.

I really wouldn't worry about the difference between 7.3 and 7.6.
A different test kit would just introduce yet another variable when both values are okay.

Alk varies during a 24 hour period significantly. Test the same time each day.

When it drops from 7.3 to 6.3 base your dosing on that.

 

[Gatorpa]

That really weird cause i do 2-3 alk test each time i test. And the result is always the same. 11am i do 2 or 3 alk test back to back, 4pm i do another 2 alk test back to back again. Im basically testing alk 5 times a day. Im very sure it was 7.3 yesterday cause i wrote it down. And i tested at a minimum 3 times to make sure it was 7.3. Today tested alk back to back 2 times and both times i got 7.6. Using aquaforest test kit. Its about to finish so im buying another one soon. I heard the test can go bad after being open for a few months? It expires in 2 months i think.

While it may be expensive, I'd get an Apex with the Trident if i was testing that much daily.
Just the amount of time spent testing, the cost of the test kits etc.