High Levels of TOC in the Reef

[Gravity]

Dan_P,

I will start the BOD5 tomorrow. The other test that you mentioned with GAC, I prefer to wait because here in Brazil it is a little bit slow to perform the Triton test once we have to delivery the water to the Triton in Germany.

Many thanks,

Daniel

Curious about your plan for this? You have access to a DO probe and incubator to maintain 20 C? May not be completely necessary if you are just checking biodegradability.

 

[Jonify]

Maybe a dumb question, but do you vape? I did an ICP, had super high TOCs, made a guess that it was the vaping (you're literally breathing sugar across your tank), stopped vaping in that room and added HEPA air purifiers, and TOCs went back to normal. Might be coincidence, but I'm not willing to run that experiment again to find out

 

[Cory]

Maybe a dumb question, but do you vape? I did an ICP, had super high TOCs, made a guess that it was the vaping (you're literally breathing sugar across your tank), stopped vaping in that room and added HEPA air purifiers, and TOCs went back to normal. Might be coincidence, but I'm not willing to run that experiment again to find out

Were you having some problems with livestock that stopped?

 

[Jonify]

Were you having some problems with livestock that stopped?

Nope. It was a newer build (6 months old) but I didn't want to take a chance after the ICP test. But I did have inexplicable pink slime (massive bacteria colonies) in my unlighted AIO rear sump, which is also an indication of excessive carbon dosing. I had stopped NOPOX months earlier, slime didn't go away. Stopped vaping in that room and added HEPA filters, 2 weeks later, slime went away. Again, this could all be coincidence, but I am not willing to run the experiment again to find out. Just something to consider.

 

[Cory]

Nope. It was a newer build (6 months old) but I didn't want to take a chance after the ICP test. But I did have inexplicable pink slime (massive bacteria colonies) in my unlighted AIO rear sump, which is also an indication of excessive carbon dosing. I had stopped NOPOX months earlier, slime didn't go away. Stopped vaping in that room and added HEPA filters, 2 weeks later, slime went away. Again, this could all be coincidence, but I am not willing to run the experiment again to find out. Just something to consider.

It was cyanobacteria or something else? Thats pretty interesting.

 

[Jonify]

It was cyanobacteria or something else? Thats pretty interesting.

It wasn't cyano, it was the bacterial colonies the typically spring up when using NOPOX. But massive. Those colonies have to grow somewhere--even when NOPOX dosing, those bacteria colonies have to grow somewhere. The whole tank was completely clear, but the unlighted sump was full of the pink slime. It went away when I stopped vaping in the same room and added HEPA purifiers (and I vape a lot, so pretty much a continuous sugar-based carbon dosing to the reef, when I was in there).

 

[josephxsxn]

While I have no advice I am just curious, do you know the ORP range of your tank? @Daniel Almeida Prado

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

Have you checked for electricity in the water? Amperage and voltage levels? What kind of lighting?

Hello Cory,

I checked!!!! Everything is fine. I am using Maxspect Leds!!!!

Rgds,

Daniel

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

It’s probably best to use manufacturer recommendation. The BRS 0.8 ROX is a good one recommended at 1 tablespoon per 10 gallon. It’s best applied in a media reactor maybe change out every two weeks or so for maximum effectiveness then repeat the TOC test after a while to check progress.

Gravity,

I already used GAC in a manufacturer recommendation, but the TOC level remains high. I thought that you talking about an super dose of GAC. Regular doses of GAC, nothing change!!!!!

Rgds,

Daniel

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

Maybe a dumb question, but do you vape? I did an ICP, had super high TOCs, made a guess that it was the vaping (you're literally breathing sugar across your tank), stopped vaping in that room and added HEPA air purifiers, and TOCs went back to normal. Might be coincidence, but I'm not willing to run that experiment again to find out

Hello Jonify,

Many thanks.

I do not vape, but I apreciate your help.

Rgds,

Daniel

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

While I have no advice I am just curious, do you know the ORP range of your tank? @Daniel Almeida Prado

Hello Josephxsxn,

The ORP is about 330!!!!!

Rgds,

Daniel

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

Curious about your plan for this? You have access to a DO probe and incubator to maintain 20 C? May not be completely necessary if you are just checking biodegradability.

Gravity,

I do not have a DO probe, even an incubator. I am thinking in proceed as Lasse explained!!!!!

Rgds,

Daniel

 

[Gravity]

Gravity,

I already used GAC in a manufacturer recommendation, but the TOC level remains high. I thought that you talking about an super dose of GAC. Regular doses of GAC, nothing change!!!!!

Rgds,

Daniel

How often do you change it out? GAC will fill up similar to DI resin bottom to top. So if you don’t change it frequent enough the reactor will be depleted then do nothing. So more frequent changeout could prove helpful. You could technically increase capacity by grinding it for more surface area but that’s not what the reactor is designed for... A more supercharged option could be some aquarium safe resin, such as chempure blue or Purite.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Gravity,

I already used GAC in a manufacturer recommendation, but the TOC level remains high. I thought that you talking about an super dose of GAC. Regular doses of GAC, nothing change!!!!!

Rgds,

Daniel

If you think lowering TOC is desirable in your case, use more GAC and replace it more often.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I fail to see any utility to doing an oxygen demand test, unless folks are suspicious that the TOC test is inaccurate.

At best, it will either show

1. BOD is unusually high. That confirms the TOC is high. What then that is different than if you do not confirm it?

2. BOD is not unusually high. Then either the TOC test is wrong, or the organic involved is not readily biodegraded. What then?

 

[Cory]

How do the corals die? That might give clues to something. How long does it take generally?

Have you measured par from your maxspect leds?

 

[kenchilada]

How do the corals die? That might give clues to something. How long does it take generally?

Have you measured par from your maxspect leds?

Maybe some pics of inside the tank would help too. I only see equipment pics.

 

[Lasse]

I fail to see any utility to doing an oxygen demand test, unless folks are suspicious that the TOC test is inaccurate.

At best, it will either show

1. BOD is unusually high. That confirms the TOC is high. What then that is different than if you do not confirm it?

2. BOD is not unusually high. Then either the TOC test is wrong, or the organic involved is not readily biodegraded. What then?

IMO - it is of a huge importance to know the nature of the high TOC (It has been 6 test - all with high TOC). If you have a unusually high BOD - you know that the organic involved is readily biodegraded and - still IMO - probably not the reasons for your poor coral surviving. You can close that track - IMO

If the BOD is normal or low - you know that the high TOC is caused by not readily biodegraded organic carbon sources that can have potential toxic characteristics (there is a lot of them). In this case - it can be wise to follow this track and try to identify the compound.

I have seen a lot of N-DOC analysis and all the time the TOC level have followed the expected path - I do not suspect that 6 test showing around the same high TOC level should be false - if one of six - yes maybe - but not all N-DOC tests showing high values

I´m not sure that it is the high TOC that is the root to the problem OP have had for many years with this setup - but it is one parameter sticking out in his tests and my way of attacking problems like this is to try to follow a track in order to either rule out or confirm it. I always try to follow a simple yes or no schedule when I try to tack down problems

In this case - we have - still IMO - two tracks to follow (that can be the same track because many anti fungus chemicals is based on organic carbon) The two things I (and some others) have suggest is to try too figure out if the pipes used have been treated against mold and to get an indication if the high TOC level is caused of readily biodegraded or not readily biodegraded organic carbon sources. If the pipes is not treated - case closed. If BOD is high - case closed. If the pipes is treated and/or BOD is low - this paths is worth to go further with - IMO

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

How often do you change it out? GAC will fill up similar to DI resin bottom to top. So if you don’t change it frequent enough the reactor will be depleted then do nothing. So more frequent changeout could prove helpful. You could technically increase capacity by grinding it for more surface area but that’s not what the reactor is designed for... A more supercharged option could be some aquarium safe resin, such as chempure blue or Purite.

Hello Gravity,

Thank you very much. I will do that, but first I will try to do the BOD5.

Rgds,

Daniel

 

[Daniel Almeida Prado]

If you think lowering TOC is desirable in your case, use more GAC and replace it more often.

Hello Randy,

Thank you very much. I will do that!!!!

Rgds,

Daniel