High Phosphates were killing my hammers!

[Eddie K]

hi everyone. Ive been in this hobby for a while now and i would like to share my experience with hammers. For the first time ever, I have managed to stop and reverse my dying wall hammer. It had two mouths when I bought it and its down to one but there is new tissue growth over the skeleton! My system is a total of 350 gallons, i have a skimmer and use a calcium reactor. My nitrates are between 5-10 and I keep my alk at 8-9 with calcium at 450-480. Mg is at 1400 usually but not checked often.
My phosphates got up to 60-70 ppb (hanna checker) and I needed to correct it. I thought a refugium growing cheto was enough, but nope! So I used Lanthanum Trichloride made by seaklear commercial grade. I diluted it (1 ml in 250 rodi) and added over 2 days. That cut it in half to 30-40 ppb. I suspected my cheto was dying off too and releasing phosphates back in the water. Well, I added 0.5 ml of full strength over 2 more days with 1 ml syringe in 5 micron filter sock, and that got it down to 17 ppb. Close to ocean water levels I believe. Now my hammers are opening up, tissue loss has stopped and no ill effects on any fish or corals. Im a firm believer in this product now and GFO never worked before. I cant believe the changes lowering my phosphates has had. Hope this helps a fellow reefer out there! Happy reefing!

 

[road_runner]

hi everyone. Ive been in this hobby for a while now and i would like to share my experience with hammers. For the first time ever, I have managed to stop and reverse my dying wall hammer. It had two mouths when I bought it and its down to one but there is new tissue growth over the skeleton! My system is a total of 350 gallons, i have a skimmer and use a calcium reactor. My nitrates are between 5-10 and I keep my alk at 8-9 with calcium at 450-480. Mg is at 1400 usually but not checked often.
My phosphates got up to 60-70 ppb (hanna checker) and I needed to correct it. I thought a refugium growing cheto was enough, but nope! So I used Lanthanum Trichloride made by seaklear commercial grade. I diluted it (1 ml in 250 rodi) and added over 2 days. That cut it in half to 30-40 ppb. I suspected my cheto was dying off too and releasing phosphates back in the water. Well, I added 0.5 ml of full strength over 2 more days with 1 ml syringe in 5 micron filter sock, and that got it down to 17 ppb. Close to ocean water levels I believe. Now my hammers are opening up, tissue loss has stopped and no ill effects on any fish or corals. Im a firm believer in this product now and GFO never worked before. I cant believe the changes lowering my phosphates has had. Hope this helps a fellow reefer out there! Happy reefing!

Why you think you had high po4 in the first place?
What's your plans moving forward? Keep using that product?

 

[Eddie K]

High phosphates prob came from regular feedings and maybe the calcium reactor media?. Rocks leach out phosphates but the tank has been running for 3 years. Cheato has always been growing crazy for me but not enough to bring down phosphates. Based on what what I have read, skimmer does good job with nitrates but not phosphates.
Moving forward, I will keep using gfo and add lanthanum as needed weekly. For now, ill test for phosphates daily though.

 

[road_runner]

High phosphates prob came from regular feedings and maybe the calcium reactor media?. Rocks leach out phosphates but the tank has been running for 3 years. Cheato has always been growing crazy for me but not enough to bring down phosphates. Based on what what I have read, skimmer does good job with nitrates but not phosphates.
Moving forward, I will keep using gfo and add lanthanum as needed weekly. For now, ill test for phosphates daily though.

Bingo. Treating the causes better than treating the symptoms. Po4 is the symptom.
Our reef is in and out equation. Just like body calories.
In= feeding that break down to no3 po4+and coral waste+if you have something else that is leaching nutrients.
Out= what the biological(bacteria) and mechanical filtrations can proccess or filter out(skimmer, filter pads, carbon)+our regular maintenance and cleaning
What's left we can target remove like using gfo to bind po4 out of the water.
If the input more than output, we have access po4 naturally.
Its always better to try to balance the system and depend leas and less on chemicals that rarely come without side effects long or short term.
Planning the bio load carefully( number of fish, ammount of feeding) and having the right mechanical filtration paired with providing enough substrate and food for bacteria to thrive is the best natural way to proccess excess nutrients.
If you have more nutrients you will have excess po4 no3. If you have less than you need nutrients you can starve out your biological filtration and go through what is commonly called mini cycle or old tank syndrom..
Hopefully you find the balance and avoid using chemichals.
Market is full with chemicals and every vendor promises a magic bullet that usually come with price impact on something else...

 

[Eddie K]

As an update, I checked my RO/DI water coming out of 7 stage BRS unit - phosphates were more then 200 ppb using hanna checker. Sooooo, thats kinda surprising. I can either add gfo reactor as part of rodi setup or just keep doing what Im doing. My tank prob evaporates 2 gallons a day I think.

 

[road_runner]

As an update, I checked my RO/DI water coming out of 7 stage BRS unit - phosphates were more then 200 ppb using hanna checker. Sooooo, thats kinda surprising. I can either add gfo reactor as part of rodi setup or just keep doing what Im doing. My tank prob evaporates 2 gallons a day I think.

Oh man no, that do not make much sense. Also adding gfo to the rodi will not be cost effective. Because you will need to change it often otherwise it will bring it's own set of problems. Most of the gfo in the market are al based which will leach al, and will release thebpo4 back once it reach capacity. Which means you need to change it often.
The one that are not al based are expensive and make no sense to burn through them like that.
Your RODI have something wrong or your water source which I find hard to believe if its drinking water.

You see, finding the rootcause is as important ad the solution itself. That's what I was implying for the other day in my posts..

 

[road_runner]

Are you sure your measurment is correct? Had to ask..

 

[Eddie K]

Ran the test twice! TDs 0 coming off my rodi unit. I live in Dallas. They also use chloramines. I use a 5 micron and 1 micron as recommended for chloramines. The sediment and carbon blocks were changed earlier this week too. Suggestions?!?!

 

[road_runner]

Ran the test twice! TDs 0 coming off my rodi unit. I live in Dallas. They also use chloramines. I use a 5 micron and 1 micron as recommended for chloramines. The sediment and carbon blocks were changed earlier this week too. Suggestions?!?!

Ok zero tds which is good. How about the po4..are you sure you are measuring 200pbb po4 at the output of the rodi?
What test kit you use for po4.
Are you measuring the water sitting inside the container or right after the rodi? If you are taking water out of s container, What you can do is take a clean cup..no soap residue. Clean it with rodi.
Then fill the cup from tour rodi water. Do po4 test from the water in the cup..
Otherwise fill in your po4 tester with rodi coming out of the rodi directly...make sense?

 

[road_runner]

If it's not obvious I am trying to see if the po4 is indeed co.ing room the rodi unit or from a container or something.

 

[Eddie K]

Ok zero tds which is good. How about the po4..are you sure you are measuring 200pbb po4 at the output of the rodi?
What test kit you use for po4.
Are you measuring the water sitting inside the container or right after the rodi? If you are taking water out of s container, What you can do is take a clean cup..no soap residue. Clean it with rodi.
Then fill the cup from tour rodi water. Do po4 test from the water in the cup..
Otherwise fill in your po4 tester with rodi coming out of the rodi directly...make sense?

I use hanna checker UL version for saltwater. . I ran the rodi line for 30 min then rinsed a cup with rodi then filled it and tested that water.

 

[Eddie K]

I use hanna checker UL version for saltwater. . I ran the rodi line for 30 min then rinsed a cup with rodi then filled it and tested that water.

It was a glass actually

 

[road_runner]

I have never seen this before. A zero TDS water from rodi output have such high po4.
Have you tested tds and po4 before the rodi?

 

[Eddie K]

Also tested nitrates of rodi water - zero. So yey! At least I dont have to worry about that too.

 

[Eddie K]

I have never seen this before. A zero TDS water from rodi output have such high po4.
Have you tested tds and po4 before the rodi?

This is the first time. I never suspected it so I was really surprised. Ok, heres a thought, its not saltwater. Its fresh water. Im going to add some fresh salt to a sample and retest.

 

[road_runner]

This is the first time. I never suspected it so I was really surprised. Ok, heres a thought, its not saltwater. Its fresh water. Im going to add some fresh salt to a sample and retest.

Hmm maybe..maybe these test kits react to salt water not fresh water..yeh let's do it. We will all learn something today.

 

[Entz]

The ulr won’t work in RODI, it gives false readings as per Hanna

 

[road_runner]

The ulr won’t work in RODI, it gives false readings as per Hanna

Here you have it. We learned something.
Now let's keep tracking and test your salt water. Both gresh mix and if you have w container you save salt water in.
Maybe your salt adding something
Maybe your storage container is contaminated and adding something.

All these tests should clear your baseline on the rodi, salt mix and storage side.

 

[Eddie K]

Ok. So I mixed it with salt (red sea blue bucket) and it reads 18 ppb. still not 0 though. To elaborate, ran rodi line x 10 min. Rinsed a glass. Filled it up with rodi water. Mixed some salt in it for sg 1.025. Waited for it to clear up. Tested it with the hanna checker and it reads 18 ppb.

 

[road_runner]

Ok. So I mixed it with salt (red sea blue bucket) and it reads 18 ppb. still not 0 though. To elaborate, ran rodi line x 10 min. Rinsed a glass. Filled it up with rodi water. Mixed some salt in it for sg 1.025. Waited for it to clear up. Tested it with the hanna checker and it reads 18 ppb.

Ueh but thsys still very low po4...which is good.