HLLE - I need some help me to find a solution

[kaduozores]

Hi all
I have been fighting with HLLE for years, every day, when I see them, I feel very bad, incompetent, for not being able to solve this problem.
Seen my videos, the HLLE started near to september of 2016, and I have been improving many things during this time, but something still wrong, and now I'll ask help.

1 - I don't use activate carbon
I used just few times when a treatement was necessary in the system, as whitebugs treatment.

2 - I use ground probe and there is no stray voltage
I had a problem in the grounding of my house, I had 8v on the grounding to aquarium, so recently I made a new dedicated ground for aquarium ground probe and now I have 0v of stray voltage.

3 - Feed a good variety of foods and some vitamins
Current fish feed scheduling
-Neptune AFS 5 times per day: NLS Thera+A, NLS Algaemax, Tropical d'allio plus, just a little bit of NLS Ick Shiled and NLS Hex Shiled
-Once to two times per day Sera GVG Mix
-Once per day TLF Sea veggies, one day green, other day purple.
-Every other day Ocean Nutrituon Formula One
-Every other day FisrtBite Veggies pellets

Vitamins on food once a week
-Brightwell Vitamarin-M
-Brightwell Vitamarin-C
-S.E.C.O Boost
-Vita Chem

4 - The water quality is good
Ca - 440
Mg - 1230
Kh - 7,7
K - 400
NO3 - 0
PO4 - 0,015
Density 1,025

5 - Ozone
My ORP is low, I'm using ozone since the beginning (2014), now the ozone generator isn't so efficient, I need to change it. It's a 500 mg/h, now it's running 24h/day and the orp is 300.
I checked the orp probe, it's reading correctly, but I don't know how many mg/h the generator is producing. But with out the generator the orp should be around 200.

6 - Stress
HLLE began near the time that Sohal was introduced into the tank, but not all my problems with HLLE are limited to tangs, I also have in angels and mystery wrasse, those aren't stressed by the Sohal.
So I don't know if that would be the reason.

7- Parasite infection.
I dunno how I can identify those things, but I fed the fishes with hex shield as it was in the instructions.

8 - Bacterial infection.
I dunno how I can identify those things too. Never done nothing for bacterial infections.

Fishes Affected:
- Yellow Tang

- Desjardini Tang

- Hippo Tang

- Potter Angelfish

- Flagfin angelfish

- Mystery Wrasse

Tank Setup.

Tank: 75x31x28 280G
Sump: 43x21x18 68G
Lighting: 6 Rapidled Coronas
Flow: 3x Tunze 6095 and 1x 6055
Controller: Apex
Ozonizer: Enaly 500 mg/l/h
Ozone Reactor Reef Octopus
Return Pump: WaterBlaster 10.000
Skimmer: Regal 300SSSS
PO4 Reactor: Phosban 150 with Rowa
Heater: 2x Finnex 500w
Chiller Resun 1/4hp
Substrate: 150kg
Rocks: 100kg
Calcium Reactor: SRO CR5000 + BM C120-2AT
Frag tank: 24x24x16 38G, with Rapidled Corona

Display tank

I need more ideas of things I should do, my fish should stop suffering

Thanks

 

[HotRocks]

I would recommend food soaking Zoecon. It seems to work really well for HLLE. I'm on a short break at work, i am sure others may have additional insight!

 

[brwaldbaum]

1) Was HLLE already present the first time that you used carbon? If not, have you tried vacuuming your substrate?

2) Have you tried stopping ozone and/or PhosBan for an extended period of time?

 

[kaduozores]

I would recommend food soaking Zoecon. It seems to work really well for HLLE. I'm on a short break at work, i am sure others may have additional insight!

I'm already soaking food with a good variety of vitamins, but if nothing works I'll give a try. Thanks

1) Was HLLE already present the first time that you used carbon? If not, have you tried vacuuming your substrate?

2) Have you tried stopping ozone and/or PhosBan for an extended period of time?

In september 2018 I rebuild the system and washed all substrate and rocks. Since that I used activated carbon two times after the white bugs treatment, in a phosban 150 reactor, with low flow rate.

About Ozone, the ozone generator was ON constantly because orp was low, yesterday I set the controller to lower orp, so now it doesn't stay on constantly, but a can turn it off for a while to see if something changes.

 

[brwaldbaum]

I'd remove the RowaPhos as well.

Can one of the fish be transferred to a completely separate aquarium for a few months? If that fish did improve, you'd at least have some hope that there is something you can do to fix a very frustrating problem.

 

[brwaldbaum]

Do any of the fish flash, twitch, or yawn? Some ectoparasites can erode fins.

 

[alton]

First of all if you have 8 volts on your grounding system you need to call an electrical contractor to fix that issue immediately. The only fish I ever owned that was HLLE affected was a Chevron Tang. He was the best vacuum cleaner in the world but his tank stayed to clean. I tried to feed algae sheets but he refused to eat them. Borrowed him to my LFS and they placed him in their algae ridden coral tank. In eight months he cleaned up the tank and the HLLE was gone. I took him home and started feeding Spirulina Brine as an additional frozen food and HLLE never re-appeared. Sohal Tangs have been blamed many times for stressing out other fish?

 

[kaduozores]

I'd remove the RowaPhos as well.

Can one of the fish be transferred to a completely separate aquarium for a few months? If that fish did improve, you'd at least have some hope that there is something you can do to fix a very frustrating problem.

I started rowaphos a few months ago, never used before and the HLLE started in 2016, I don't know if removing the howa will have any improvement in HLLE.
I have a quarentine tank, I can transfer one fish and see what happens.

Do any of the fish flash, twitch, or yawn? Some ectoparasites can erode fins.

I didn't noticed these behaviors recently, I will observe a little more, but the pectoral fins aren't eroded.

Thanks for your support.

 

[kaduozores]

First of all if you have 8 volts on your grounding system you need to call an electrical contractor to fix that issue immediately. The only fish I ever owned that was HLLE affected was a Chevron Tang. He was the best vacuum cleaner in the world but his tank stayed to clean. I tried to feed algae sheets but he refused to eat them. Borrowed him to my LFS and they placed him in their algae ridden coral tank. In eight months he cleaned up the tank and the HLLE was gone. I took him home and started feeding Spirulina Brine as an additional frozen food and HLLE never re-appeared. Sohal Tangs have been blamed many times for stressing out other fish?

Yes, I had 8v between the tank and the old ground, now the electrical problem at the grounding was fixed, I made a new grounding dedicated to the ground probe, now the volts reading between the tank and the new grounding is 0,0v (zero volts), but this problem I had for years, and I thought that, since the voltage was low it wouldn't affect my fishes, because the voltage increased ~1v to each connected equipment in the tank, it wasn't a single equipment that I discharged the 8v.

Sohal stress the others when the AFS will feed them, the fish noticed that all pumps turn off 1 minut before the AFS turn on, and they fight for a spot on below the AFS. Here's a video of that.


Thanks

 

[4FordFamily]

I would recommend food soaking Zoecon. It seems to work really well for HLLE. I'm on a short break at work, i am sure others may have additional insight!

This is my recommendation, it seems to work a lot better than vita chem and selcon and many others. Not sure why!

 

[4FordFamily]

First of all if you have 8 volts on your grounding system you need to call an electrical contractor to fix that issue immediately. The only fish I ever owned that was HLLE affected was a Chevron Tang. He was the best vacuum cleaner in the world but his tank stayed to clean. I tried to feed algae sheets but he refused to eat them. Borrowed him to my LFS and they placed him in their algae ridden coral tank. In eight months he cleaned up the tank and the HLLE was gone. I took him home and started feeding Spirulina Brine as an additional frozen food and HLLE never re-appeared. Sohal Tangs have been blamed many times for stressing out other fish?

This is great insight — carrying types of Nori (indeed red and green ocean nutrition nori) seems to really help as well.

 

[kaduozores]

This is my recommendation, it seems to work a lot better than vita chem and selcon and many others. Not sure why!

Kent Marine is very hard to find here in Brazil, and also, in the ebay doesn't have a seller that offer international shipping.
There's a another option, and is relatively easy to buy, do you think it should work too?
Bio Viv Hufa 250ml - Suplemento - Continuum
http://www.continuumaquatics.com/marine_fd/bioviv_hufa.php

This is great insight — carrying types of Nori (indeed red and green ocean nutrition nori) seems to really help as well.

I'm already feeding TLF green and purple sea veggies, those from ocean nutrition is also hard to find here, but its easier to find in the ebay, and I can order from there.

 

[4FordFamily]

Kent Marine is very hard to find here in Brazil, and also, in the ebay doesn't have a seller that offer international shipping.
There's a another option, and is relatively easy to buy, do you think it should work too?
Bio Viv Hufa 250ml - Suplemento - Continuum
http://www.continuumaquatics.com/marine_fd/bioviv_hufa.php


I'm already feeding TLF green and purple sea veggies, those from ocean nutrition is also hard to find here, but its easier to find in the ebay, and I can order from there.

I will say I have little to no issues with HLLE despite not the best water quality (overestocking) and I think the additives and plethora of varied nori is a factor. Whether it can be replicated with other additives or algae, probably — but I can’t speak to that. I’m one of those that does what has worked for me for years, not one that always understands why it works haha! Sorry I’m not more help!

 

[4FordFamily]

Also, that yellow tang looks like it may have had an infection or perhaps flukes eating on the fins. Have you freshwater dipped a fish or two?

Wondering if little seseame seeds would be visible in a freshwater dip in a dark bucket.

@Humblefish are you convinced this is just nutritional? It may well be but now I’m second guessing.

 

[brwaldbaum]

From J. Hemdal on RC:

"I have NEVER seen HLLE resolve without first moving the fish to a new aquarium."

"Stray voltage is a red herring, there is no correlation with that and HLLE. Same with adding HUFAs to the diet. I have never been able to resolve the issue with Selcon being sold at room temperature."

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1496785

Does anyone know if J. Hemdal has since changed his views?

 

[Humblefish]

Can we see some closeups of the Mystery Wrasse? IME; it is unusual to see HLLE on a wrasse.

 

[kaduozores]

I will say I have little to no issues with HLLE despite not the best water quality (overestocking) and I think the additives and plethora of varied nori is a factor. Whether it can be replicated with other additives or algae, probably — but I can’t speak to that. I’m one of those that does what has worked for me for years, not one that always understands why it works haha! Sorry I’m not more help!

I bought the Hufa and I'll receive it saturday.
A friend send me some photos yesterday from his purple tang, he cure him with Hufa from continnum, I'll keep nori and soak food with hufa to see what happens.

Also, that yellow tang looks like it may have had an infection or perhaps flukes eating on the fins. Have you freshwater dipped a fish or two?

Wondering if little seseame seeds would be visible in a freshwater dip in a dark bucket.

@Humblefish are you convinced this is just nutritional? It may well be but now I’m second guessing.

The yellow tang had red infection in the beginning of this tank, in 2015. But I never made fresh water dip.

May 25 2015

From J. Hemdal on RC:

"I have NEVER seen HLLE resolve without first moving the fish to a new aquarium."

"Stray voltage is a red herring, there is no correlation with that and HLLE. Same with adding HUFAs to the diet. I have never been able to resolve the issue with Selcon being sold at room temperature."

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1496785

Does anyone know if J. Hemdal has since changed his views?

I dunno, but I really want to resolve the problem here, I don't want to sell them, most of those fishes are here for 4 years, the hippo tang for 6 years.

Can we see some closeups of the Mystery Wrasse? IME; it is unusual to see HLLE on a wrasse.

I'll try, its hard to see him out of the rocks, and it's worst whem I'm in front of the tank.

 

[kaduozores]

Can we see some closeups of the Mystery Wrasse? IME; it is unusual to see HLLE on a wrasse.

Here the closeups @Humblefish

 

[Humblefish]

@kaduozores I wonder if you could have a lingering bacterial issue in the tank...

If all causes of HLLE have been addressed/eliminated, I think I would start soaking your fish food with an antibiotic such as erythromycin. Or do you have a UV sterilizer (or diatom filter) you could run to clear the water of harmful bacteria?

 

[kaduozores]

@kaduozores I wonder if you could have a lingering bacterial issue in the tank...

If all causes of HLLE have been addressed/eliminated, I think I would start soaking your fish food with an antibiotic such as erythromycin. Or do you have a UV sterilizer (or diatom filter) you could run to clear the water of harmful bacteria?

I'll start to soak the food with antibiotic, maybe Amoxicillin Clavulanate, a friend told that this one can treat a larger spectrum of bacteria, and I have a 26W UV sterilizer, but it's not working, maybe the reactor is burned, I'll try to fix it.

Thanks a lot for all help, I hope I'll came back with great results soon.