Holy Grail torch

[Eric23]

I just brought this topic up somewhere else and wanted to get everyone else's opinion.. for those of you who have been around for awhile you might understand what I'm asking. The "holy Grail torch" popping up for what I think is a ridiculous amount of money seems to look exactly like the Indonesian torches that used to come in a lot cheaper than the Australian Gold torches. I was recently talking to an importer who explain to me that the reason for the lack of Aussie golds and the reason why there's so much more expensive is that they come from an area that's very murky which also happens to have a lot of saltwater crocodiles so there's not a lot of divers willing to go in and try and pick them up. The Indonesian torches I'm tolls are way easier to find and pick up and no crocodiles. So someone got the idea when people were looking for Australian Gold torches to give the Indonesian gold torch Which is less bright and thinner a fancy name and charge more for it. It's still a beautiful piece of coral and what it's worth is really up to you but I know for a fact that like a lot of other things in this Hobby they used to be a whole lot cheaper and we're just called Indonesian gold torches

 

[anthonys51]

People open businesses for one simple reason. To turn a profit. The price you charge in business has nothing to do with rarity or cost to make or collect. The price is set because someone is willing to pay it . Those 2500 pair of shoes don’t cost a whole of a lot more than the 100 shoes to make. You simply buy them for the name. Why do you think corals will be any different. Plus you aren’t just able to purchase 20 gold torches for Indonesia. You have to take 40-60 green or dull ones too. But in business if someone is happy and willing to pay 200 for something , you charge it. It’s not as simple to say it only cost you 25 bucks. You have rent, labor, electric , taxes. Rent alone at aquarium village is 13000 a month. The bottom line is if I charge 100 for gold torches abd they fly off the shelf I be silly not to charge 125 next time. It’s smart business. There is nothing wrong about that. Simple because you wouldn’t pay that price doesn’t mean the price isn’t fair. I don’t go to fancy steak houses I don’t see the point in paying 250 for a couple to eat dinner. But if you look around these packed. This isn’t a personson attack also. Just trying to explain myself. Don’t know what you do for work but if someone offered you 40000 a year more to leave your job you go right. Then if someone else offers you 50000 more you go again. You wouldn’t say this is crazy I am not worth this. I was only making 40000 a year ago now I am making 130000

 

[anthonys51]

Also holy grail is an Indonesia torch. It’s just a common name. Australia gold torches are more expensive for a lot of reason. But corodiles are not one of them. In Australia you aren’t aloud to collect by the shore you need to go miles and miles off shore. No crocs there. The cost of buying the boat that can handle that plus the gas and rent in Australia is a lot more in Indonesia. I know a wholesaler personally he used to live In Indonesia. He had a nanny for every kid and a personal driver for him and his wife.

 

[Eric23]

I get it 100% and I don't take it personally at all... You have a business, you have to make money, you have to compete with the people on the internet who don't have as much overhead, it's not an easy business I'm sure... I try to support local shops as much as I can. As a matter of fact I feel like the internet, eBay, etc...has been one of the main reasons everything has shot up in price. The reason I even brought this up is because it recently I was in a shop out of state and there was a single head of Indo gold torch the guy was trying to sell for 250 bucks with some crazy label on it and I was like this is getting out of control however if I owned a business and I had a piece of coral sitting in a tank that cost me 25 bucks and somebody offered me $200 for it I would accept it and that would become my new standard price so like I said I completely understand.

 

[anthonys51]

That guy out of state also probably wasn’t a direct importer. He probably paid 100 for that torch. We are very lucky to be in Long Island with a lot of competition so the prices stay down.

 

[Eric23]

I know the snappy names are good for you guys as business owners because it's a marketing tool but as a customer I would personally rather have someone just tell me this is a regular Indo torch but it happens to be an amazing example of the species so it's x amount of money. This way the color and look of the coral is what you're paying for. The problem I see for customers is that anyone can slap a name on something even if it doesn't have the exceptional color and someone will buy it just so they can say they have whatever coral it is but then I guess that's up to the individual customer and as long as they're happy that's all that matters. I myself have paid what I think are ridiculously hi prices for corals but I wanted them and it made me happy so I got it.... I used to breed Australian geckos and the same thing would happen over the years. Prices would go from 100 to 300 depending on demand.. The animals didn't change, my availability didn't change, what people were willing to spend is what changed but eventually the prices got so out of control that most people couldn't afford them and nobody was buying anymore so people stopped breeding them and because they came from Australia they weren't imported at all and now a lot of them are no longer in the hobby because the original adults have died off. Not saying the same thing applies to the coral industry but there has to be a balance in order for it to thrive. I doubt however that there will ever be a lack of people willing to pay top dollar for a beautiful piece of the ocean... Just my personal thoughts on the subject I could be way way off

 

[anthonys51]

I bet when the price went up to 300 you didn’t charge 100 . I won’t buy off Jason fox. I personally think the corals are too small prices are too high. But the man makes money and I respect his business practices and strategy. Although I refuse to buy many do. I have to respect that. The fact is , if I label it really nice indo torch you won’t get excited I label it holy grail torch you get excited and pay more. It might be stupid but it’s the reality. The other day I did it myself. I went shopping for potato chips and I noticed I picked the most attractive bag. Lol

 

[anthonys51]

I bet when the price went up to 300 you didn’t charge 100 . I won’t buy off Jason fox. I personally think the corals are too small prices are too high. But the man makes money and I respect his business practices and strategy. Although I refuse to buy many do. I have to respect that. The fact is , if I label it really nice indo torch you won’t get excited I label it holy grail torch you get excited and pay more. It might be stupid but it’s the reality. The other day I did it myself. I went shopping for potato chips and I noticed I picked the most attractive bag. Lol

 

[zoasaholic]

I got all 3 type of gold torch
Indonesian torches
Holy grail torches(Holy grail torches look similar to Indo torches with white lights With out the "Blue lights" you can't tell the different)Not worth the Money
Australian Gold torches is completely different from Indo

 

[anthonys51]

Holy grail torches are indo torches. They come out of the island of Bali Australia gold torches tend to have thick tentacles Most corals we get are from indo (Jurkara or Bali) or Australia

 

[anthonys51]

But remember holy grail torch is a made up name by the retailer or wholesalers. The importers in indo simple rate their corals by grade. With ultra being the best grade

 

[zoasaholic]

Indo torch gold with brown stripes(tips are the same)
Holy grail gold with a bit of blue stripes(tips are the same as indo)Can only tell the different with heavy blue lights

 

[anthonys51]

Easiest way to tell Australia to indo
These are all Indo. Skinny

Australia thick tentacles

In picture a little hard to tell but side by side very easy.
And yes most times Australia are more gold but some Bali torches I seen where more beautiful than any Australia gold torch

As far as price. It’s worth it if you are willing to pay for it. I wouldn’t pay 2500 for nikes but some do

 

[zoasaholic]

Oh picture that you see online are photoshop

 

[anthonys51]

You think lol

 

[FarmerTy]

Would mine be considered an Aussie or an indo while we are on the subject?

 

[anthonys51]

Like I said hard to tell thickness in picture. But Aussie and that is one beautiful piece. You have a very nice tank

 

[FarmerTy]

Like I said hard to tell thickness in picture. But Aussie and that is one beautiful piece. You have a very nice tank

Thanks Anthony and thank you for all the useful information in this thread. I was tempted to get a holy trail torch but it seems like just a buzzword for your standard indo gold torch, which is beautiful but maybe not worth it for me personally to pay that much for it.

 

[zoasaholic]

Thanks Anthony and thank you for all the useful information in this thread. I was tempted to get a holy trail torch but it seems like just a buzzword for your standard indo gold torch, which is beautiful but maybe not worth it for me personally to pay that much for it.

I can give example You sps guy
Walt disney acro with blue light you can tell the different from the distance
Holy grail you really have to look very hard to tell the different your face next to the aquarium glass.With normal indo and Holy side by side.

 

[FarmerTy]

I can give example You sps guy
Walt disney acro with blue light you can tell the different from the distance
Holy grail you really have to look very hard to tell the different your face next to the aquarium glass.With normal indo and Holy side by side.

Haha, thanks for taking my SPS language zoasaholic! Perfect analogy!