Horrible horrible video from TSA...

[runninlines]

Eh, his fish looked healthy enough to me. They aren't going to be able to stay in that tank forever, but nothing wrong with keeping them in there for a little bit.

The problem with all these high horse tang police is that you over look the fact that no matter how large of an aquarium you have, it's MICROSOPIC TINY in comparison to a natural reef. These fish belong in the ocean and no glass box is actually the same as the reef, no matter how big. Why is a "4 ft" long aquarium the minimum? Says who? What if I say a 6000 ft long tank should be the minimum? That still wouldn't be as big as the reef they were taken from. So, anyone who keeps a fish in a glass box is just as wrong as the next guy. All you're doing is saying that because you made up some arbitrary size as "the minimum" that somehow relieves you from feeling guilty about keeping a wild animal in captivity.

If you don't like it, just don't watch it, but don't try to act like TSA did something wrong by filming someone's aquarium. I enjoyed the video.

That Anthias clearly had popeye...

 

[13rodo]

I think what bothers me is that we have to in the first place. I am not outraged. I am more frustrated that the content and sales model requires this crap to be relevant and that it comes down to choosing business and likes vs a better message.

So TSA is not alone, the whole model is crap across the spectrum, not just reefing. All of the "maxing" stuff, "builds" of anything, etc. that cross those lines to the absurd for likes or money.

Anyway, I will step off of the soap box now.

You might say he was "reefmaxxing" ... in all seriousness though, R2R is the closest thing I have to social media now. Likewise can't stand influencer culture! Like by definition if you follow influencers then you are being influenced instead of making your own choices... don't understand the appeal.

 

[christinna77]

I'm quite disappointed TSA decided to completely ignore this thread, yet they've been posting on R2R since morning with their drops.

 

[HolyGrailTorch Lover]

The tank is a humiliation to this wonderful hobby

 

[Michael Hughes]

I'm quite disappointed TSA decided to completely ignore this thread, yet they've been posting on R2R since morning with their drops.

Same here! I wonder how much business they lost as a result. I certainly wasn't interested in shopping their live sale this morning.

 

[Damage12]

I'm quite disappointed TSA decided to completely ignore this thread, yet they've been posting on R2R since morning with their drops.

I guess they figure any publicity is good publicity. Not smart on their part. I’ve put them on ignore on R2R. It’s a shame for them as I’m building a 400 gallon Reef Savvy tank and I very well may have spent many $$$ with them, but no longer going to do that.

 

[FrugalReeferJon]

Yeah I knew something wasn’t right when I saw the spacing of the corals, the rabbit fish and the tang.

 

[rtparty]

A lot of the fish looked pretty stressed in that video to me. The angel especially looked rough, just swimming circles around the rock with nowhere else to go.

The anthias looked like it had popeye and some fin damage. I also don't see nearly enough sand for the tilefish to follow its natural behavior and build a burrow. Most of the larger fish could barely turn around before hitting the glass. They weren't really swimming around, just hovering in place because there wasn't anywhere to go.

I also noticed some aggression. The tilefish jabbed at the angelfish several times and the anthias was chasing the grouper. The camera cuts a lot, so who knows how much chasing or posturing is happening off camera, plus as we all know, fish are often on their best behavior when we're at the tank.

To me it looked like a crowded stressful setup where the fish had no real space to claim a spot or behave naturally.

And honestly, the 4ft comparison doesn't make sense. Nobody's saying a 4ft tank is the same as the ocean, but there's obviously a difference between giving a fish decent space and cramming it into a tank where it can barely move and turn around. By the way, lots of the fish in the tank should actually have more than 4ft.

How many feet should they have? What mythical number will stop all aggression from ever happening?

 

[christinna77]

A lot of the fish looked pretty stressed in that video to me. The angel especially looked rough, just swimming circles around the rock with nowhere else to go.

The anthias looked like it had popeye and some fin damage. I also don't see nearly enough sand for the tilefish to follow its natural behavior and build a burrow. Most of the larger fish could barely turn around before hitting the glass. They weren't really swimming around, just hovering in place because there wasn't anywhere to go.

I also noticed some aggression. The tilefish jabbed at the angelfish several times and the anthias was chasing the grouper. The camera cuts a lot, so who knows how much chasing or posturing is happening off camera, plus as we all know, fish are often on their best behavior when we're at the tank.

To me it looked like a crowded stressful setup where the fish had no real space to claim a spot or behave naturally.

And honestly, the 4ft comparison doesn't make sense. Nobody's saying a 4ft tank is the same as the ocean, but there's obviously a difference between giving a fish decent space and cramming it into a tank where it can barely move and turn around. By the way, lots of the fish in the tank should actually have more than 4ft.

How many feet should they have? What mythical number will stop all aggression from ever happening?

It's not just about how many feet the tank is. Some fish are naturally incompatible. For example, I'd never put a tilefish or a candy basslet together with a grouper or a hogfish, especially in such a confined space. A lot of bad decisions were made when stocking that tank, and the owner admitted it itself that the hogfish was a bully.

 

[bobbravo2]

System Expansion: He acknowledges that his current 50-gallon setup is reaching its limit, and he plans to eventually upgrade to a larger, 6-foot peninsula-style tank to better accommodate the needs of his growing fish, such as an Achilles tang (27:34 - 28:39).

Just because you have plans to get a larger system, doesn’t mean you jam as much as you can into your current tank. What he’s doing and to a smaller extent Top Shelf is making our hobby look bad. It also doing a disservice to anyone coming into the hobby thinking this is okay.

Fair. Point taken.

 

[Damage12]

How many feet should they have? What mythical number will stop all aggression from ever happening?

By that logic, we can put 3 tangs in a 15 gallon. It’s common sense. Every person that has a tank is hypocritical because their fish are not in the ocean. There is no magical length, but clearly the bigger the better. I say this tank is one of the smallest with the most fish crammed in there. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a tank so overcrowded with the wrong fish in my 20+ years in the hobby and the business.

 

[rtparty]

By that logic, we can put 3 tangs in a 15 gallon. It’s common sense. Every person that has a tank is hypocritical because their fish are not in the ocean. There is no magical length, but clearly the bigger the better. I say this tank is one of the smallest with the most fish crammed in there. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a tank so overcrowded with the wrong fish in my 20+ years in the hobby and the business.

Nowehere in my posts was that ever implied and I even said "there is absolutely too small"

However, there is no magical number or formula for "what is the right size/length?" They are all made up numbers to justify what size tank we need to keep which fish.

Most people claim an achilles tang can be kept in a 6 foot tank. Yet, talk to anyone that is successful with them and they will all tell you 8 feet is the bare minimum and 10-12 feet is much better and you need WAY more flow than you ever imagined. Why? Becuase that is where they live in the ocean. Super high energy reefs where waves and tides are pulling them in every direction. Why don't we see posts ripping on people who keep them in 6 foot tanks? Because 6 feet is good enough for tangs?

The pile on mob mentality in this thread is crazy. I bet if most on here posted videos of their tanks, we could rip most of them apart for something. Should we? Absolutely not.

 

[CHSUB]

And not to forget a Red Sea 50 gallon is actually a 42 gallon display. This is really indefensible, while it is not easy to judge stress level of fish this absolutely looks terrible. Owner claims the tank is 3 years old and nothing in there looks more than a few months old…this is common sense and not a tank size issue debate.

 

[christinna77]

By that logic, we can put 3 tangs in a 15 gallon. It’s common sense. Every person that has a tank is hypocritical because their fish are not in the ocean. There is no magical length, but clearly the bigger the better. I say this tank is one of the smallest with the most fish crammed in there. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a tank so overcrowded with the wrong fish in my 20+ years in the hobby and the business.

Nowehere in my posts was that ever implied and I even said "there is absolutely too small"

However, there is no magical number or formula for "what is the right size/length?" They are all made up numbers to justify what size tank we need to keep which fish.

Most people claim an achilles tang can be kept in a 6 foot tank. Yet, talk to anyone that is successful with them and they will all tell you 8 feet is the bare minimum and 10-12 feet is much better and you need WAY more flow than you ever imagined. Why? Becuase that is where they live in the ocean. Super high energy reefs where waves and tides are pulling them in every direction. Why don't we see posts ripping on people who keep them in 6 foot tanks? Because 6 feet is good enough for tangs?

The pile on mob mentality in this thread is crazy. I bet if most on here posted videos of their tanks, we could rip most of them apart for something. Should we? Absolutely not.

You might find this article useful: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/estimating-the-need-for-swimming-space-for-aquarium-fishes.801/

 

[JumboShrimp]

IMO, it was a beautiful tank in many respects, and at the same time, a very flawed tank in other respects... as many comments have appropriately zeroed in on. I have seen and enjoyed many other informative TSA videos (and their in-person Florida store is always a treat to visit), but I think in making this particular video they overlooked the the rancid steak and only smelled the sizzle!

 

[rtparty]

You might find this article useful: https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/estimating-the-need-for-swimming-space-for-aquarium-fishes.801/

Not useful as it generalizes and clumps too many fish together. I have seen and read that many times.

An achilles tang and a tomini tang are not the same but that chart says they are

 

[CHSUB]

IMO, it was a beautiful tank in many respects

Sorry I disagree…it shows nothing but a huge recent purchase of coral frags and fish. There is nothing to learn from this tank.

 

[Tahoe61]

One tank highlighted is not going to make or break my opinion of TSA.
We are not fully informed enough to make negative generalizations.

 

[JumboShrimp]

(You may have me leaning more your way; especially if I go watch it a second time. I do recall that the water was crystal clear... does that count? )

 

[CHSUB]

the water was crystal clear... does that count?

Yes, you got me!