Horrible horrible video from TSA...

[areefer01]

Sorry I disagree…it shows nothing but a huge recent purchase of coral frags and fish. There is nothing to learn from this tank.

It is social media. It is entertainment not education.

 

[Damage12]

Nowehere in my posts was that ever implied and I even said "there is absolutely too small"

However, there is no magical number or formula for "what is the right size/length?" They are all made up numbers to justify what size tank we need to keep which fish.

Most people claim an achilles tang can be kept in a 6 foot tank. Yet, talk to anyone that is successful with them and they will all tell you 8 feet is the bare minimum and 10-12 feet is much better and you need WAY more flow than you ever imagined. Why? Becuase that is where they live in the ocean. Super high energy reefs where waves and tides are pulling them in every direction. Why don't we see posts ripping on people who keep them in 6 foot tanks? Because 6 feet is good enough for tangs?

The pile on mob mentality in this thread is crazy. I bet if most on here posted videos of their tanks, we could rip most of them apart for something. Should we? Absolutely not.

Don’t get too upset. I agreed there is no magical number. You’re a hypocrite, I’m a hypocrite and so is everyone that owns a fish tank or a pet in a cage or even a zoo for that matter.

I don’t think there is a mob mentality in this thread. R2R and YouTube are public forum’s and when you post something you will get many differing opinions, right or wrong. I think the main issue is that TSA’s video promotes something that many new reefer’s may latch onto thinking it is perfectly fine, when there are better ways to keep fish in a BETTER environment, not the best environment.

Would you like to be stuck in a 6’ x 6’ jail cell? I’m sure, not.

 

[CHSUB]

It is social media. It is entertainment not education.

I don’t find car accidents, for example, entertaining however that appears to get lot of views on social media..I guess I’m different.

 

[winxp_man]

How many feet should they have? What mythical number will stop all aggression from ever happening?

1.5 ft….. 20 tangs. I like it prison style.

 

[Blennioidei]

And not to forget a Red Sea 50 gallon is actually a 42 gallon display. This is really indefensible, while it is not easy to judge stress level of fish this absolutely looks terrible. Owner claims the tank is 3 years old and nothing in there looks more than a few months old…this is common sense and not a tank size issue debate.

I was actually wondering how is that 50 gallon, it just looks small.

I also dont agree with the magic number type thing and the tang police stuff, sometimes they can be super overreactive. A juvinile dime sized fish will not instantly die by putting them in a smaller tank for a time, or for QT etc.
I do think however, that if you looked at enough fish and tanks, you have that gut feeling if what you see is good or bad. For me it is not about exact lenghts, more about proportions and fish behaviour. This just looks bad.

 

[fish_collector]

I didn't find it offensive. Has anyone ever thought that maybe, just maybe those fish were staged in that tank for the purpose of filming a segment for TSA? About 1% of what you see on the internet is genuine, the rest is about as real as an episode of "Real Housewives".

And now corals need more space as well?

 

[areefer01]

Has anyone ever thought that maybe, just maybe those fish were staged in that tank for the purpose of filming a segment for TSA?

That is an interesting thought but seems like a lot of effort for little reward based on the 66 posts so far in this thread. The comments on YouTube share this threads theme. I would bet that this is not staged but the way the hobbyist reefs.

About 1% of what you see on the internet is genuine, the rest is about as real as an episode of "Real Housewives".

Lol - yeah.

And now corals need more space as well?

I know you posted this in jest but to be honest, they do. Especially if the hobbyist has any long term success. They are similar to a garden or house plant rack. They need attention and trimming so they do not crowd one another. Corals will shade, sting, compete for space.

One thing I've not read a comment on is that at the beginning of the video they asked how long the tank has been up which the reply was about 3 years. That is a lot of frags vs 3 years of growth. Sort of like M&M toppings on a DQ Blizzard...

As to the rest of the drama - I stay in my own lane.

 

[afboundguy]

Eh, his fish looked healthy enough to me. They aren't going to be able to stay in that tank forever, but nothing wrong with keeping them in there for a little bit.

There is tons wrong with this even for a day. Even just keeping one of those fish, nevermind the shear amount that is in there, is wrong on so many levels and is a shame that @TopShelfAquatics published a video to praise the tank and setup! If we can all see sick fish in the video I am guessing there's a lot more sick fish in person.

 

[Schlafrig]

Looks like they privated the video, I'm curious if they will post anything or just pretend it never happened.

 

[afboundguy]

Looks like they privated the video, I'm curious if they will post anything or just pretend it never happened.

I was just about to add to this thread that the video was taken down. Even if they never say anything and pretend like it never happened the fact that it was taken down is a win for the hobby!

 

[Tahoe61]

Looks like they privated the video, I'm curious if they will post anything or just pretend it never happened.

Or just let the unnecessary drama roll off their back. It's not their tank, it doesn't represent the company.

 

[fish_collector]

That is an interesting thought but seems like a lot of effort for little reward based on the 66 posts so far in this thread. The comments on YouTube share this threads theme. I would bet that this is not staged but the way the hobbyist reefs.



Lol - yeah.



I know you posted this in jest but to be honest, they do. Especially if the hobbyist has any long term success. They are similar to a garden or house plant rack. They need attention and trimming so they do not crowd one another. Corals will shade, sting, compete for space.

One thing I've not read a comment on is that at the beginning of the video they asked how long the tank has been up which the reply was about 3 years. That is a lot of frags vs 3 years of growth. Sort of like M&M toppings on a DQ Blizzard...

As to the rest of the drama - I stay in my own lane.

Your points are valid. To get down to the nitty gritty of our hobby, we put fish and corals in a glass box for our viewing pleasure, nothing more. To keep a surgeon fish in 150 gallons of water (in a good scenario) is an atrocity in itself, but somehow everyone accepts that as being ok. How many threads do we read through where someone loses their whole tank of fish to ich or velvet due to their complete disregard for QT yet no one chastises them for their neglect. I’m just sick of the judgements that are handed down from a community of hypocrites. They say those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw rocks.

 

[fish_collector]

I was just about to add to this thread that the video was taken down. Even if they never say anything and pretend like it never happened the fact that it was taken down is a win for the hobby!

A win for the hobby? Keeping fish in a glass box for your pleasure you mean? The “right” thing to do if anyone was truly concerned about the welfare of fish, is the call for an outright ban on the hobby altogether. TSA is a huge player that is in existence to support our hobby, some of you want to boycott them. That is backwards logic any way you look at it.

I think the responses here were a bit harsh. The fact that TSA took the video offline demonstrates perhaps they do care about how the community sees them. Someone made poor call with that video, maybe video production was slow that week and just needed something to post. Lighten up about it, they’ve done what ya’ll wanted. Everyone should spend $100 with them today as a thank you.

And I wasn’t singling you out afboundguy, I know you had good intentions.

 

[exnisstech]

I didn't find it offensive. Has anyone ever thought that maybe, just maybe those fish were staged in that tank for the purpose of filming a segment for TSA? About 1% of what you see on the internet is genuine, the rest is about as real as an episode of "Real Housewives"

I've not watched the video but I get what the content is.
I think the problem many have here is TSA is thought of as a company trying to help the hobby and promote positive treatment of marine life as well as being an awesome vendor. I think many of us consider them one of the more reputable vendors in the hobby.
As mentioned earlier social media is entertainment not education. Unfortunately many of a different generation than myself use it as education. I think people are disappointed because they feel let down by TSA. They feel they are promoting something that new people will see as perfectly fine then some will end up here asking for assistance to figure our what want wrong. Those here that care are always trying to help but it keeps getting more difficult with the influx of people that are struggling because they saw a video or other SM post and thought it was the correct way to do thing and failed to realize what they're watching isn't actually real life to begin with. Its their fault but others get to deal with the fallout because they care for the life being harmed in the process. The fact that they've made the video private shows they are listening and probably discussing how to proceed.
Just old guy ramblings
Happy Reefing

 

[KQuillan]

The pile on mob mentality in this thread is crazy. I bet if most on here posted videos of their tanks, we could rip most of them apart for something. Should we? Absolutely not.

Mob mentality? All I have been reading is about a lot of fish in too small a tank and about disappointment in TSA, which, in fact, should know better. I don't see that as mob mentality, but truth!

 

[winxp_man]

It’s one thing being on house arrest with a home that is 2500-3000 SQFT vs a 10x10 cell and bubba next to you! This dudes tank is the bubba tank. Why is hard to understand that yes there is no equation of tank size vs the ocean there is still a way to give these fish some space if you’re going to put them in a glass cage. Again even a 2000-3000 SqFt home is nothing compared to the good ol out doors. I hunt and fish, and can’t stay away from being outside enough. But if the only choice is a bubba cell vs an average home I have to spend time closed in…. Give me the home.

 

[winxp_man]

Mob mentality? All I have been reading is about a lot of fish in too small a tank and about disappointment in TSA, which, in fact, should know better. I don't see that as mob mentality, but truth!

The truth is as some have stated that these kind of posts also tell nubs that is okay to pack your tank as if it’s a hoarders house.

 

[BeanAnimal]

A win for the hobby? Keeping fish in a glass box for your pleasure you mean? The “right” thing to do if anyone was truly concerned about the welfare of fish, is the call for an outright ban on the hobby altogether.

That is a reduction to absurdity based on a straw man. Objecting to sick fish in an overstocked tank says exactly that -- objecting to sick fish in an overstocked tank. That's it. Full stop. The leap to "then you must oppose the whole hobby" is absurdism on steroids. There are an infinite number of stops in between.

 

[fish_collector]

That is a reduction to absurdity based on a straw man. Objecting to sick fish in an overstocked tank says exactly that -- objecting to sick fish in an overstocked tank. That's it. Full stop. The leap to "then you must oppose the whole hobby" is absurdism on steroids. There are an infinite number of stops in between.

Yes Bean, probably. As I posted already there are so many things that go on in this hobby that go without notice, the example I used was those who’s fish die from preventable disease, no one even questions it. It’s not something I worry about, it was just a good example in my mind at the time of writing. Now we have a video showing a tank overstocked with fish and everyone has a fit over it. That makes no sense to me. If we are to hold TSA accountable for their actions, we should hold everyone accountable for their actions. But we don’t, it’s selective and that’s hypocritical. My point being if we cared that much about the well being of fish, let’s just not keep them at all, it’s obviously sarcastic. Sure my post has likely offended a good number of people, but it is what it is. I wouldn’t have started a thread about it I really dont care that much, but I’m not everyone else and I’m aware of that. For the sake of saying it, yes Bean it was a sarcastic remark and may have been out of place, thanks for pointing that out.

 

[rtparty]

Mob mentality? All I have been reading is about a lot of fish in too small a tank and about disappointment in TSA, which, in fact, should know better. I don't see that as mob mentality, but truth!

Calls to ignore them? Boycott them? Delete the video and go on an apology tour!

Yes, mob mentality out to get TSA