How copper works, and why it sometimes doesn't

[melypr1985]

@Humblefish - what might you suggest in the event you think you’ve encountered a copper sensitive fish but you’re also 97% sure you’re taking on Velvet? Short of getting your hands on Rx CP that is known to be effective is there anything else that can be done without the fish getting re-infected in a non medicated tank?

A freshwater dip followed by an acryflavin bath should buy you some time. During that time I would suggest raising the copper level slowly to help ease the fish into it. I also use coppersafe on many "copper sensitive" fish with success.... with care you should be able to treat angels, butterflies, even puffers with copper when needed.

 

[Keith_0011]

@DanielJameS - should you need it you can order Chloroquine Phosphate on amazon without a prescription.
https://www.amazon.com/New-Life-Spe...pID=4197-6Ok2LL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

 

[DanielJameS]

@DanielJameS - should you need it you can order Chloroquine Phosphate on amazon without a prescription.
https://www.amazon.com/New-Life-Spe...pID=4197-6Ok2LL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

I’ve read a lot of skepticism in regards to the purity of that stuff, but thought about ordering some as a backup. I’ve done the FW Dip rally combo once already, and just did an additional rally bath only 2 days ago for fear the FW dip might kill the fish. She’s obviously pretty weak at the moment.

 

[Eggpaul]

@Humblefish Will place a clown in the hospital tank today (biocube 29). I'm going to fill it with tank water to make it an easy transfer. I have Cupramine and a test kit. I read on your post that I should ramp it up. Can you recommend the amount I should put in there today?

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish Will place a clown in the hospital tank today (biocube 29). I'm going to fill it with tank water to make it an easy transfer. I have Cupramine and a test kit. I read on your post that I should ramp it up. Can you recommend the amount I should put in there today?

You can follow Seachem's initial dosage instructions (1 mL per 10 gallons), and that should put you in the neighborhood of 0.25 mg/L. But after that go slow, and take several days to reach 0.5 mg/L.

 

[Tft12]

Has anyone else had the experience of killing every Acanthurus tang when they dose Cupramine at the recommended level? I killed 3 in qt over the course of about a year when I treated at their recommended 0.5 ppm (by recommended dosing and then testing). Once I lowered it to 200-300 ppb (by testing) I never lost another tang and I also never had trouble treating ich. I never used anything like Prime but perhaps my pH was causing the Cupramine to be more toxic in the same way Prime would? I hadn't heard of erratic swimming being a symptom of Cu toxicity until I just came across this thread. Each of those PBT tangs did indeed swim upside down and look very disoriented prior to dying (at the time, the only ideas I could find was that it was poisoning from cyanide collection).

 

[Humblefish]

Has anyone else had the experience of killing every Acanthurus tang when they dose Cupramine at the recommended level? I killed 3 in qt over the course of about a year when I treated at their recommended 0.5 ppm (by recommended dosing and then testing). Once I lowered it to 200-300 ppb (by testing) I never lost another tang and I also never had trouble treating ich. I never used anything like Prime but perhaps my pH was causing the Cupramine to be more toxic in the same way Prime would? I hadn't heard of erratic swimming being a symptom of Cu toxicity until I just came across this thread. Each of those PBT tangs did indeed swim upside down and look very disoriented prior to dying (at the time, the only ideas I could find was that it was poisoning from cyanide collection).

Have you tried using chelated copper (e.g. Copper Power)? I've treated many, many Acanthurus tangs successfully with that. @4FordFamily @HotRocks can testify.

 

[Tft12]

I've been thinking about switching. Since I found a range of Cupramine that seems effective and safe via my Hanna Checker I've been hesitant to make any changes, but I will definitely take a look at Copper Power.

 

[HotRocks]

Have you tried using chelated copper (e.g. Copper Power)? I've treated many, many Acanthurus tangs successfully with that. @4FordFamily @HotRocks can testify.

Agree 100%

Copper power seems much less harsh than cupramine IME.

I have also treated a few leopard Wrasse known to be copper sensitive at a level of 1.75ppm with copper power and don't experience any lethargic behavior or appetite supression.

It really has been great to use with the Hanna checker.

 

[Eggpaul]

You can follow Seachem's initial dosage instructions (1 mL per 10 gallons), and that should put you in the neighborhood of 0.25 mg/L. But after that go slow, and take several days to reach 0.5 mg/L.

Did a FW dip. Couple white spots now. But I also see some dark spots on the first white stripe. Like the scales came off. Had a tang die from ich 2 day a ago. Ramping up copper. Should I also use general cure?

 

[Humblefish]

Did a FW dip. Couple white spots now. But I also see some dark spots on the first white stripe. Like the scales came off. Had a tang die from ich 2 day a ago. Ramping up copper. Should I also use general cure?

Did you see any white sesame seed looking things detach during the FW dip?

 

[Eggpaul]

Did you see any white sesame seed looking things detach during the FW dip?

No I did not. Was looking for flukes but nothing fell off. I don't think the tang had velvet. The white spots would decrease and increase. Lived like that for a month until it got worse. One of my clowns suddenly got the white spots. It was a lot. Doesn't seem to much now, but it's only been a day in QT

 

[Humblefish]

No I did not. Was looking for flukes but nothing fell off. I don't think the tang had velvet. The white spots would decrease and increase. Lived like that for a month until it got worse. One of my clowns suddenly got the white spots. It was a lot. Doesn't seem to much now, but it's only been a day in QT

If you didn't see white dots fall off during the FW dip, no need to use Prazipro or GC.

 

[4FordFamily]

Agree 100%

Copper power seems much less harsh than cupramine IME.

I have also treated a few leopard Wrasse known to be copper sensitive at a level of 1.75ppm with copper power and don't experience any lethargic behavior or appetite supression.

It really has been great to use with the Hanna checker.

Ditto

 

[chicago]

Doing another round with copper on some new fish. Working great .. especially with the Hana Checker.. 1.99 .. I find this much easier then hypo and more effective.. Old School treatments like 30 years ago.. still work best for me. Just my 2 cents.. Hunblefish.. thanks for all the work you do on this board.

 

[Eggpaul]

If you didn't see white dots fall off during the FW dip, no need to use Prazipro or GC.

Lost a clown in hospital tank. Probably too late. Snowflake clown is in there too because I saw some spots. These also appeared on the head. See the off white spots on the head?

 

[HotRocks]

@Eggpaul
I don't know if it's pic quality or what. I think I can see symptoms of Brook on the fish pictured. Do fins and back of fish appear to have "dry" or peeling skin as a human would after a bad sunburn?

 

[4FordFamily]

@Eggpaul
I don't know if it's pic quality or what. I think I can see symptoms of Brook on the fish pictured. Do fins and back of fish appear to have "dry" or peeling skin as a human would after a bad sunburn?

Agree. I think I do see brook.

 

[Eggpaul]

@Eggpaul
I don't know if it's pic quality or what. I think I can see symptoms of Brook on the fish pictured. Do fins and back of fish appear to have "dry" or peeling skin as a human would after a bad sunburn?

No. Just those off white spots on the head. Lost a pbt and clown to ICH. Trying to save this guy

 

[Eggpaul]

Agree. I think I do see brook.

The spots look pink on the head