How did this happen again?

[Reefahholic]

Did anyone ask you to change something? I mean - apologetically, the logic you're using seems faulty. Its the same logic as those that say 'I dont QT at all and its bullet-proof'. Im not changing anything...

I am not criticizing you or what you did (and certainly not suggesting you change something) - but you need to at least consider the possibility that had you 'done nothing' you may have had the same results. (Many people do have the same results doing nothing). That said - if I were doing QT in 2019 - I would be doing a bit of independent research on some of the new strains and issues people are having (perhaps causing QT to fail) - or at least seemingly - having a more open mind to those that are trying to help. JMHO

I’m speaking from experience that I can back up with video. Do you have any quarantine videos that I can learn from? I just find it funny that you question a lot of people’s practices like @HotRocks and @4FordFamily who have quarantined hundreds of fish and sit in the disease forum and help people all day.

For the record...

With Ich...the Trophont feeds on the fish for about 3 - 7 days...

With Velvet...the Trophont feeds on the fish for about 12hrs - 4 days....

 

[MnFish1]

I’m speaking from experience that I can back up with video. Do you have any quarantine videos that I can learn from? I just find it funny that you question a lot of people’s practices like @HotRocks and @4FordFamily who have quarantined hundreds of fish and sit in the disease forum and help people all day.

For the record...

With Ich...the Trophont feeds on the fish for about 3 - 7 days...

With Velvet...the Trophont feeds on the fish for about 12hrs - 4 days....

I replied by PM - feel free to answer.

 

[NS Mike D]

Decapsulated brine shrimp eggs. Hmm, I need to remember that.

Reef Nutrition ROE as well. Mandarin candy

 

[Reefahholic]

Reef Nutrition ROE as well. Mandarin candy

I screenshot this. Gonna buy some soon when I get another Mandarin!

 

[MombasaLionfish]

When you say “they”, which they are you talking about: UV Sterilizer or oxygenator?

Like anything else in this hobby, you determine your priorities. Because this thread is read by many, the suggestions were not specific to your finances but addressed additional aids in your battle against pest. You can add a diatom filter which will remove ich free swimming larvae from the water column.

UV Sterilizer not sure if I'm looking in the wrong place but I saw one that was 400$.

 

[MombasaLionfish]

Are you using copper in your tank or just prazipro - prazipro will not affect CI/Velvet. And if that is Chaeto - I would remove - as it can absorb copper (I think) - make sure you're checking levels.

Just prazipro at the moment yes it is chaeto but I think it is fine it been in their since last time but I will remove it just in case.

 

[MombasaLionfish]

A final question (I think) What i understand you notise a disease 4 days after adding the new fish + the mandarin. which fish did show the first signs of ich? - The newly added or the old ones? Did the mandarin show any signs? I´m sorry for many questions but I think it is importent to sort out exacly what´s happen in order to find an explanation.

Sincerely Lasse

The old domino damsel started turning pale first. The mandarin it was hard to tell but he was not eating and rapid breathing.

 

[MombasaLionfish]

Looks like at least the one has either ich or velvet, so I think you are going to need to resort to copper or whatever you used before to cure it.

FWIW, I've found my mandarin devours decapsulated brine shrimp eggs. So if you decide to try a mandarin again, I believe it is actually possible to keep them eating with that while in quarantine.

So I should do copper before prazipro?

 

[bluprntguy]

So I should do copper before prazipro?

I would. If it's velvet, it may already be too late.

 

[Reefahholic]

So I should do copper before prazipro?

I’d use both at the same time. Powdered form is safer because it doesn’t have a reducing agent.

I use API GC with Copper Power. No issues. If the fish appear sluggish or something looks off....do a water change and only run the copper until the symptoms go away.

 

[Paul Sands]

I’d use both at the same time. Powdered form is safer because it doesn’t have a reducing agent.

I use API GC with Copper Power. No issues. If the fish appear sluggish or something looks off....do a water change and only run the copper until the symptoms go away.

Copper usually treats flukes. I’m not sure why you’d suggest doing both at the same time. Usual approach is one medication at a time except in extreme emergencies.

 

[MombasaLionfish]

I do not have a powder form but should I do a water change and start copper instead of prazipro?

 

[MombasaLionfish]

Copper usually treats flukes. I’m not sure why you’d suggest doing both at the same time. Usual approach is one medication at a time except in extreme emergencies.

Just noticed you joined on tuesday welcome.

 

[MnFish1]

Copper usually treats flukes. I’m not sure why you’d suggest doing both at the same time. Usual approach is one medication at a time except in extreme emergencies.

This is true - and I often wonder why people recommend it - part of it might be that prazipro is 'safe' and apparently (according to seachem) you need higher copper levels to treat flukes:

From Seachem FAQ: Thanks for your post, and if its not too late for me to warn you, don't mix medications! Cupramine will suffice in eradicating both ick and flukes. For cryptocaryon (saltwater ick), a concentration of 0.25-0.35 mg/L should safely eradicate them; for trematodes (flukes) a concentration of 0.4-0.5 mg/L will be needed. If following the recommended dosage on the label you will raise your copper levels to 0.5 mg/L, which should eradicate all forms of parasites.

 

[ngoodermuth]

Be careful accepting anything the manufacturer states at face value. They are first and foremost, selling their product.

I do agree, it’s better to do prazipro/GC outside of copper treatment if at all possible... since mixing the two often causes bacterial blooms which can be problematic and lower the O2 in the tank. Prazi lowers O2 all by itself.

Copper does not treat flukes, that I know of.

 

[MnFish1]

Be careful accepting anything the manufacturer states at face value. They are first and foremost, selling their product.

I do agree, it’s better to do prazipro/GC outside of copper treatment if at all possible... since mixing the two often causes bacterial blooms which can be problematic and lower the O2 in the tank. Prazi lowers O2 all by itself.

Copper does not treat flukes, that I know of.

Seems that you (and I) were wrong - copper does treat flukes - I just looked it up

 

[MnFish1]

Be careful accepting anything the manufacturer states at face value. They are first and foremost, selling their product.

I do agree, it’s better to do prazipro/GC outside of copper treatment if at all possible... since mixing the two often causes bacterial blooms which can be problematic and lower the O2 in the tank. Prazi lowers O2 all by itself.

Copper does not treat flukes, that I know of.

Based on what? ? I mean the manufacturer says that they do - at a higher level - Come on - Lets get real?

 

[MnFish1]

Be careful accepting anything the manufacturer states at face value. They are first and foremost, selling their product.

I do agree, it’s better to do prazipro/GC outside of copper treatment if at all possible... since mixing the two often causes bacterial blooms which can be problematic and lower the O2 in the tank. Prazi lowers O2 all by itself.

Copper does not treat flukes, that I know of.

So are the people here selling their product - being their expertise (#reefsquad)- and dont take this as disrectful - unless you've talked to the manufacturers and ask'd for example 'why do you think your product kills flukes?' to me its irresonsible to say 'copper doesnt kill flukes' - whats that based on - when the manufacturer says it does - (at a higher dose of copper??

 

[ngoodermuth]

.5 for ionic copper isn’t actually a higher level, since that’s what is suggested as the target therapeutic level anyway.

The manufacturer says that .35 is therapeutic for ich... and I’ve seen fish symptomatic in .35-.4 myself.

Like I said, as far as I know and have experienced... copper typically doesn’t treat flukes, at least not completely. I’ve seen flukes come off during a freshwater dip, while in therapeutic copper. That’s all the proof I need lol

 

[MnFish1]

.5 for ionic copper isn’t actually a higher level, since that’s what is suggested as the target therapeutic level anyway.

The manufacturer says that .35 is therapeutic for ich... and I’ve seen fish symptomatic in .35-.4 myself.

Like I said, as far as I know and have experienced... copper typically doesn’t treat flukes, at least not completely. I’ve seen flukes come off during a freshwater dip, while in therapeutic copper. That’s all the proof I need lol

To me (and this - like your post above - is just personal opinion) - the best way to treat fish is with the fewest possible medications possible. Not the shotgun approach. If, in fact, copper at .5 for 3 weeks - as they suggest in their FAQ will kill both flukes and other extermal parasites - and it allows one to use fewer medications - why is that a problem?

I think all of this mistrust of 'manufacturers' (except certain manufacturers) by the staff on this site may have gone a bit further than it need to be. The supply chain is mistrusted, LFS are mistrusted, chemical manufacturers are mistrusted. There is no benefit for Seachem to make a recommendation about copper and flukes - if it doesnt work (is there?) - if it doesnt work - you're still going to be buying another medication right (i.e. prazipro or metronidazole).

BTW - this is all kind of a moot point - and I'm sorry I merely agreed with @Paul Sands about copper and flukes (which is all I was trying to do). Its a moot point because if you're going to treat for internal parasites (which are not killed by copper for various reasons) - you still need a second drug.