How did this happen again?

[Lasse]

Let see if I got this right. You had a mandarin that died. You put the aquarium at 76 days fallow. You buy new fish. You QT them an treat them chemprophylactic with copper and prazi pro. You put them back into the aquarium and soon after that they got sick. Have I understand it in the right way?

Sincerely Lasse

 

[MombasaLionfish]

Let see if I got this right. You had a mandarin that died. You put the aquarium at 76 days fallow. You buy new fish. You QT them an treat them chemprophylactic with copper and prazi pro. You put them back into the aquarium and soon after that they got sick. Have I understand it in the right way?

Sincerely Lasse

Not exactly. First I have fish in my tank that aren't sick then I get new fish that were sick then I QT the ones that survived and wait 76 days then I get new fish QT them and put them in the tank then I put a mandarin and crabs in tank mandarin dies. Now I have sick fish that I'm trying to catch.

 

[ngoodermuth]

I don't have a skimmer I do have a feather duster. That thing on his head is a fluke? He has had it on both sides since I got him at a fish store three months ago. Also still no luck with catching them.

Then it’s probably just the photo... it looks just like a fluke, but if it’s been there three months without moving it’s definitely not. The difference between looking at a photo and a fish in person [emoji849]

 

[Lasse]

OK

Can you give a time span after the first 76 days fallow. How long did you QT the new fish before you put them in the DT together with the old you have QT during the fallow period. How long time did all QT fish spend together in the DT before introduction of the mandarin and the crab. How long time did the mandarin spent in the DT before it dies? How long time did pass between the mandarins death and the new symptoms in the DT

Sincerely Lasse

 

[ngoodermuth]

Not exactly. First I have fish in my tank that aren't sick then I get new fish that were sick then I QT the ones that survived and wait 76 days then I get new fish QT them and put them in the tank then I put a mandarin and crabs in tank mandarin dies. Now I have sick fish that I'm trying to catch.

I had something similar happen, I QT’d all of my fish but decided I would skip QT on the mandarin since they are supposedly “parasite-resistant”.... well, low and behold tank broke out in ich and I had to pull everyone and treat the mandarin anyway.

For what it’s worth, mine did just fine with CP... but I made sure it was fat and healthy first by filling the QT with live rock and a few bottles of pods, and feeding nutrimar ova. Unfortunately, ova isn’t available anymore... but you might be able to find fish roe at a local market, if you want to try again. After I was sure she was healthy and not going to starve, I pulled the rock and added CP, and continued to offer the ova until her 14 days was up.

She didn’t eat great during treatment, especially the last 5 days or so... but as soon as the 14 days were up transferred her to my DT and she did fine. I think making sure they are healthy to start is the key.... you can’t treat them right from the store because they are already half-starved by then.

 

[JCRove06]

If you can remove the fish and place in a container. Then go to your LFS, let them know what’s going on, describe the fish, and look for one similar on color/shape/size.
If you’re able to find one matching c/s/s, good news, you’ve likely found the same type of fish. Purchase it and replace the old fish as it has gone bad. Deposit the previous captured fished in the fish recycling machine in the bathroom being sure to depress the recycle lever. You’ll see the fish disappear to be recycled just like my father showed me way back when. Fish are like plastic or glass and can be repurposed.

Jkjkjkjk, I’ve never FWD’d by dayum...that looks effective!! In my early days fish would get ich bad. I should have been doing that. Good luck!!!

 

[MombasaLionfish]

OK

Can you give a time span after the first 76 days fallow. How long did you QT the new fish before you put them in the DT together with the old you have QT during the fallow period. How long time did all QT fish spend together in the DT before introduction of the mandarin and the crab. How long time did the mandarin spent in the DT before it dies? How long time did pass between the mandarins death and the new symptoms in the DT

Sincerely Lasse

I QT the new fish for about two weeks. I put them and the mandarin in at the same time. A week later the mandin died the tree days after that they start showing symptoms.

 

[MombasaLionfish]

OK

Can you give a time span after the first 76 days fallow. How long did you QT the new fish before you put them in the DT together with the old you have QT during the fallow period. How long time did all QT fish spend together in the DT before introduction of the mandarin and the crab. How long time did the mandarin spent in the DT before it dies? How long time did pass between the mandarins death and the new symptoms in the DT

Sincerely Lasse

I QT the new fish for about two weeks. I put them and the mandarin in at the same time. A week later the mandin died the tree days after that they start showing symptoms.

 

[MombasaLionfish]

OK

Can you give a time span after the first 76 days fallow. How long did you QT the new fish before you put them in the DT together with the old you have QT during the fallow period. How long time did all QT fish spend together in the DT before introduction of the mandarin and the crab. How long time did the mandarin spent in the DT before it dies? How long time did pass between the mandarins death and the new symptoms in the DT

Sincerely Lasse

I QT the new fish for about two weeks. I put them and the mandarin in at the same time. A week later the mandin died the tree days after that they start showing symptoms.

 

[MombasaLionfish]

Sorry about the triple post.

 

[MombasaLionfish]

I had something similar happen, I QT’d all of my fish but decided I would skip QT on the mandarin since they are supposedly “parasite-resistant”.... well, low and behold tank broke out in ich and I had to pull everyone and treat the mandarin anyway.

For what it’s worth, mine did just fine with CP... but I made sure it was fat and healthy first by filling the QT with live rock and a few bottles of pods, and feeding nutrimar ova. Unfortunately, ova isn’t available anymore... but you might be able to find fish roe at a local market, if you want to try again. After I was sure she was healthy and not going to starve, I pulled the rock and added CP, and continued to offer the ova until her 14 days was up.

She didn’t eat great during treatment, especially the last 5 days or so... but as soon as the 14 days were up transferred her to my DT and she did fine. I think making sure they are healthy to start is the key.... you can’t treat them right from the store because they are already half-starved by then.

I did not QT the mandarin.

 

[MombasaLionfish]

Good news all five have been caught and fw dip they are now in the QT with prazipro.

 

[Subsea]

They are kind of expensive I don't have extra money laying around.

When you say “they”, which they are you talking about: UV Sterilizer or oxygenator?

Like anything else in this hobby, you determine your priorities. Because this thread is read by many, the suggestions were not specific to your finances but addressed additional aids in your battle against pest. You can add a diatom filter which will remove ich free swimming larvae from the water column.

 

[bluprntguy]

Looks like at least the one has either ich or velvet, so I think you are going to need to resort to copper or whatever you used before to cure it.

FWIW, I've found my mandarin devours decapsulated brine shrimp eggs. So if you decide to try a mandarin again, I believe it is actually possible to keep them eating with that while in quarantine.

 

[MnFish1]

Are you using copper in your tank or just prazipro - prazipro will not affect CI/Velvet. And if that is Chaeto - I would remove - as it can absorb copper (I think) - make sure you're checking levels.

 

[Lasse]

days after that they start showing symptoms

A final question (I think) What i understand you notise a disease 4 days after adding the new fish + the mandarin. which fish did show the first signs of ich? - The newly added or the old ones? Did the mandarin show any signs? I´m sorry for many questions but I think it is importent to sort out exacly what´s happen in order to find an explanation.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Subsea]

Are you using copper in your tank or just prazipro - prazipro will not affect CI/Velvet. And if that is Chaeto - I would remove - as it can absorb copper (I think) - make sure you're checking levels.

Chaetomorphy as well as all other seaweeds will absorb what is in the water?

Some years ago, I grew Red Ogo, Gracilaria Parvispora, in 25 year old Ling Sy mud/algae refugium/filter and enjoyed the taste of it for human consumption. Ten years ago, when I moved to Austin, ground source water from Glenmora @ 500’ & Middle Trinity at 1000’ was heavy in dissolved minerals with zero detectable nitrates, phosphates & iron. TDS > 1000ppm. I sent samples to two separate water analysis labarotories. Ward Lab is a regional agriculture lab in Nebraska who was made aware to me by a friend that brewed beer and wanted scientific documentation from a proper lab. LCRA is the agency that overseas the Hill Country Lakes that constitute the Lower Colorado River Authority. With previous experience in waste water chemistry and boiler water chemistry including laboratory protocol & testing, I sent samples to both labaratories.

With detection lower limit at 100 parts per billion, analysis showed zero copper or zinc, yet when I sent Red Ogo for dry analysis, both copper & zinc were easily detectable at 12 ppm for copper & 5 ppm for zinc.

 

[Reefahholic]

Black fish tend to show them much better than most. Here’s a black clown with a severe infestation to compare:

If it’s not flukes, then the picture wins for the best impersonation [emoji23]

This pic says it all. This is exactly why I don’t “pop and drop.” These Flukes will not magically come off the fish.

A mere FW dip that takes only 5 minutes will knock about 99% of those off in one dip. Just that alone will drastically increase that fishes chance of surviving.

Then if you put him through a round of Praziquantel or Metroplex...just think how much more that helps him internally and externally.

 

[Reefahholic]

Looks like at least the one has either ich or velvet, so I think you are going to need to resort to copper or whatever you used before to cure it.

FWIW, I've found my mandarin devours decapsulated brine shrimp eggs. So if you decide to try a mandarin again, I believe it is actually possible to keep them eating with that while in quarantine.

Decapsulated brine shrimp eggs. Hmm, I need to remember that.

 

[Reefahholic]

Good news all five have been caught and fw dip they are now in the QT with prazipro.

The domino damsel has Ich. It’s important that we understand the life cycle of Ich. It typically stays on the fish for 3-7 days. Doing tank transfers will outrun it’s life cycle.

Transfer every 3 days or 72 hours.
Example: Transfer day 1 to QT tank at 5pm.
Transfer day 4 (5pm)
Transfer day 7 (5pm)
Transfer day 10 (5pm)
Transfer day 13 and done. ICH free!

Transfer means to a sterile dry QT with new equipment and new water. Transferring as little water as possible. I let my fish drip in a net or strainer until there’s very little water.

All old equipment needs to be sterilized in bleach solution for a last 1-2 hours. 5 TBSP per 10/G is sufficient after much debate on the issue. Rinse thoroughly and let dry or wipe dry for next session. If you do not have two sets of equipment, you can remove the fish/fishes to a bucket with an air-stone in there so that you can sterilize the current tank and equipment. This will keep the fishes alive for the 1 or 2 hours needed to sterilize.

If doing a 100% water change...always leave fish in the “medicated water.”

Example: Siphon the medicated water into another tank, bucket, bowl, vat, etc. Move the fish with old medicated water until you have your “new medicated water” ready. This allows you to clean the current tank. Or simply buy 2 sets of equipment so that you do not need to move the fish until the new medicated tank is ready and running. The purpose of this is to never leave the fish in water without medication UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO STOP TREATMENT. If you make this mistake the fish can become reinfected and the clock starts over.

 

[Reefahholic]

Or you can use Copper Power at 1.75 to 2.0 ppm.

I personally use both TTM and medication to treat most issues.

The tank transfers knock down parasite numbers and prevent them from getting out of control. Combined with medication and this prevents any further parasites from landing back on the fish.

Not to mention this increases your success rate and cuts down treatment times.

Here’s the Copper Power dosing formula. It comes out very much on point measuring the the Hanna copper checker.

Copper Power:

5 gallon tank

5gal x 1.475ml = 7.37ml

2.5ppm / 7.37ml = 0.33ppm

1.75ppm / 0.33ppm = (5.30ml total)


10 gallon tank

10gal x 1.475ml = 14.75ml

2.5ppm / 14.75ml = 0.16ppm

1.75ppm / 0.16ppm = (10.93ml total)


15 gallon tank

15gal x 1.475ml = 22.12ml

2.5ppm / 22.12ml = 0.11ppm

1.75ppm / 0.11ppm = (15.90ml total)


20 gallon tank

20gal x 1.475ml = 29.5ml

2.5ppm / 29.5ml = 0.08ppm

1.75ppm / 0.08ppm = (21.87ml total)