How Do You Get Lighting Right The First Time?

[steveschuerger]

Short answer to the title. You don’t (usually).
Longer answer is you can if you know what you want to grow and that there a lot of options available.
Simple lights that are pretty much set and go and more expensive and usually more powerful options.
I have Meridian 11 over my tank and I love it but it’s not necessarily the “right” light for everybody obviously. I’m a newer reefer who always has had LED lights but I’ve seen pics of older T5 and other tanks that looked incredible. Lastly do research and pick what seems like what you feel works best for your particular setup.

 

[zheka757]

@Ryan - Serious Reefs
Im waiting for your input on your own question!?

 

[gbose]

I would explain that it's super complicated and needs due diligence before purchase, but as a very rough beer mans guide I would put it like this:

5-10 gallons 30 watts
10-25 gallons 50-60 watts
25-40 gallons 100 watts
40-55 gallon 150-200 watts
Thats as large as I go.

One of the saddest things I frequently see on this forum is slapping a 30 watt light (for example) onto a 50 gallon tank (for example) and then being disheartened because corals are dying.

Mojo, are those LED Watts?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Mojo, are those LED Watts?

Yes for leds.

MH still follow the 3-5 watts per gallon rule, I believe t5 also follow the same rule

 

[rtparty]

Mojo, are those LED Watts?

Ryan demonstrated in a video that 1 watt per gallon was sufficient for LPS/softies for 5 of the 6 fixtures tested. The 6 fixtures tested covers almost every type of LED we use in the hobby. Despite what some people think, claim, or even market...most fixtures are more similar than they are different.

For SPS it comes out to around 2.75w per gallon.

The 1 outlier was the AI Blade that needed less wattage to achieve the same PAR as the others.

While it certainly isn't a perfect science and one must apply a little critical thinking, it is a great starting point to get things going in the right direction. You put roughly 75% of the power into the blue/violet channels and the other 25% into white/red/green. Using a ratio of 70/30 or 80/20 is also fine if someone knows they like more white or more blue.

Some fixtures tell you a rough estimate for watts used. For others, a simple $30 watt meter works.

 

[DragonWrasseFan]

I would explain that it's super complicated and needs due diligence before purchase, but as a very rough beer mans guide I would put it like this:

5-10 gallons 30 watts
10-25 gallons 50-60 watts
25-40 gallons 100 watts
40-55 gallon 150-200 watts
Thats as large as I go.

One of the saddest things I frequently see on this forum is slapping a 30 watt light (for example) onto a 50 gallon tank (for example) and then being disheartened because corals are dying.

Maybe that’s why my softies aren’t growing and don’t look too good in general. My candy cane, and Duncans seem fine at the current intensity, but my zoas and leather look upset most of the time. Maybe after I find a way to finally get rid of the cyanobacteria I’ll start slowly increasing intensity again.

 

[Ryan - Serious Reefs]

@Ryan - Serious Reefs
Im waiting for your input on your own question!?

I’ve been thinking about this ever since you posted it. One of the reasons I started that thread is because I often see people explain why they think certain methods don’t work, but rarely pair that with what actually does work. I was trying to frame the question in a way that would lead to more useful answers.

Criticism without guidance is low value. It’s like your boss telling you to “do better” without explaining how or what success even looks like.

After trying to answer it myself, I have a better appreciation for the challenge. Giving a truly helpful written answer requires a pretty unrealistic amount of effort. Very few people are willing to do that once, let alone consistently.

On top of that, most people only have experience with a handful of lights. For example, I’ve used more lights than I can count, but there are still gaps in my experience like many of the Amazon or DFC options. And some of those are probably solid choices in this case.

But here’s my attempt at answering it…

If you were going to design the ideal way for a newer to intermediate reefer to select the right light for their tank the first time and tune it to the application without harming the animals what would it be?

The bar: Getting the highest percentage of people across the finish line, with the fewest hurdles, and at a reasonable cost. Reasonable is relative to the tank.

Who: Intermediate to new reefers.
Goal 1: Buy the right light the first time (A few years before upgrade bug gets you is acceptable)
Goal 2: Set it up the right the first time.
Success Measurement: Nearly everyone crosses the finish line.

Goal 1 Recommendation: If you’re fairly new to reefing, there’s a good chance this is an LPS or softy tank. Your biggest hurdles are finding something that fits a reasonable budget, is easy to install and tune, and doesn’t overlight the tank.

Overnighting is the big one to want to avoid. Modern LEDs are powerful, and it’s very easy to run too much light. Too much light can stress or even kill corals, and often a major contributor to nuisance algae, slime outbreaks and a prolonged ugly stage.

Any popular light around 1.5 watts per gallon, fits your tank/budget, has preset spectrums and a standard mounting bracket will get the job done. Watts are a good way of estimating total light output and making sure you are not going grossly over or under. In a vast majority of cases 1.5 w/g will be more PAR than required for LPS and give room to tune it down to 1w/g but with your desired color.

One to consider Is the Kessil A360. The spectrum is very difficult to mess up, just tune to the eye. There is an intensity knob as well but the 90 watt wide angle light is hard to grossly overnight on most tanks. With a nano I'd look at something smaller. If you need some direct recommendations let us know your tank size and budget.

Goal 2 Recommendation:
Your light will likely come with app-based intensity sliders or physical knobs. Guessing and adjusting LEDs by eye has one of the lowest success rates so do almost anything but that.

Ideally:
Use one of the lights preset spectrums and resist the temptation to tweak it. Then tune intensity with a PAR meter. A Dano Plus can be found on Amazon for around $130. Use it to target roughly 75–150 PAR throughout the tank. Do this, and the chances that lighting becomes a major problem are close to zero.

It’s worth watching a quick video on how to use the Dano Plus, since it requires a correction factor.

Cheaper option:
If you don’t want to measure PAR directly, estimate output with a ~$35 watt meter. A Kill A Watt (commonly available at hardware stores) works well.

A solid starting point is about 1 watt per gallon. leaning under is usually safer than over. Estimating based on power consumption or watts isn’t as accurate as measuring, but it’s dramatically better than guessing.

In both cases:
Watch your corals and adjust slowly.

• If they stretch toward the light, increase intensity 5–10% per week until they stop.
• If they shrink, retract, or look stressed, decrease intensity weekly until they recover.
• In severe cases like bleaching or corals turning white cut the light by a third to half immediately and reassess (and consider getting input from other reefers here in R2R).

Success Rate: My experience is this would get 70% of reefers across the finish line. It jumps to 90% if there is a direct recommendation for a specific light and tuning guidance for that specific light.

@zheka757 / everyone else. Is this reasonably good? How would you improve it?

 

[zheka757]

I’ve been thinking about this ever since you posted it. One of the reasons I started that thread is because I often see people explain why they think certain methods don’t work, but rarely pair that with what actually does work. I was trying to frame the question in a way that would lead to more useful answers.

Criticism without guidance is low value. It’s like your boss telling you to “do better” without explaining how or what success even looks like.

After trying to answer it myself, I have a better appreciation for the challenge. Giving a truly helpful written answer requires a pretty unrealistic amount of effort. Very few people are willing to do that once, let alone consistently.

On top of that, most people only have experience with a handful of lights. For example, I’ve used more lights than I can count, but there are still gaps in my experience like many of the Amazon or DFC options. And some of those are probably solid choices in this case.

But here’s my attempt at answering it…



Who: Intermediate to new reefers.
Goal 1: Buy the right light the first time (A few years before upgrade bug gets you is acceptable)
Goal 2: Set it up the right the first time.
Success Measurement: Nearly everyone crosses the finish line.

Goal 1 Recommendation: If you’re fairly new to reefing, there’s a good chance this is an LPS or softy tank. Your biggest hurdles are finding something that fits a reasonable budget, is easy to install and tune, and doesn’t overlight the tank.

Overnighting is the big one to want to avoid. Modern LEDs are powerful, and it’s very easy to run too much light. Too much light can stress or even kill corals, and often a major contributor to nuisance algae, slime outbreaks and a prolonged ugly stage.

Any popular light around 1.5 watts per gallon, fits your tank/budget, has preset spectrums and a standard mounting bracket will get the job done. Watts are a good way of estimating total light output and making sure you are not going grossly over or under. In a vast majority of cases 1.5 w/g will be more PAR than required for LPS and give room to tune it down to 1w/g but with your desired color.

One to consider Is the Kessil A360. The spectrum is very difficult to mess up, just tune to the eye. There is an intensity knob as well but the 90 watt wide angle light is hard to grossly overnight on most tanks. With a nano I'd look at something smaller. If you need some direct recommendations let us know your tank size and budget.

Goal 2 Recommendation:
Your light will likely come with app-based intensity sliders or physical knobs. Guessing and adjusting LEDs by eye has one of the lowest success rates so do almost anything but that.

Ideally:
Use one of the lights preset spectrums and resist the temptation to tweak it. Then tune intensity with a PAR meter. A Dano Plus can be found on Amazon for around $130. Use it to target roughly 75–150 PAR throughout the tank. Do this, and the chances that lighting becomes a major problem are close to zero.

It’s worth watching a quick video on how to use the Dano Plus, since it requires a correction factor.

Cheaper option:
If you don’t want to measure PAR directly, estimate output with a ~$35 watt meter. A Kill A Watt (commonly available at hardware stores) works well.

A solid starting point is about 1 watt per gallon. leaning under is usually safer than over. Estimating based on power consumption or watts isn’t as accurate as measuring, but it’s dramatically better than guessing.

In both cases:
Watch your corals and adjust slowly.

• If they stretch toward the light, increase intensity 5–10% per week until they stop.
• If they shrink, retract, or look stressed, decrease intensity weekly until they recover.
• In severe cases like bleaching or corals turning white cut the light by a third to half immediately and reassess (and consider getting input from other reefers here in R2R).

Success Rate: My experience is this would get 70% of reefers across the finish line. It jumps to 90% if there is a direct recommendation for a specific light and tuning guidance for that specific light.

@zheka757 / everyone else. Is this reasonably good? How would you improve it?

I love your deep thinking on lights subject, but man, in my head im still spinning with so many variables. And I cant just agree on one light fits all applications
For example. First thing people buy is aquarium, (i think we all would agree no one buys lights first then aquarium)
How tall is this tank? Is it 30" tall or is it just 18" tall?
Should the person with 30" tall tank shop for same lights as person with 18" tall tank?
In a way, maybe the best approach for this dilemma would be, whats the best light can we get for this size tank? Vrs whats the best light that fits everyone's tank!

I run 2500w of lights over my 96x30x30 sps tank. And I run all 3 metal halides, t5's and LED.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I've heard of the 1 watt per gallon but never seen it myself and would love to hear from someone that has success with it. I've seen so many threads over the years of folks complaining their corals won't grow with their AI Prime on their 40 gallon. AI Prime is 55 watts which is more than the 1.5 watts per gallon over a 40. So many other similar threads, a 30 watt over a 20 gallon not growing.... etc....

Has anyone ever tried it themselves? A 40 watt or 50 watt light over a 40 gallon? Or something similar? I don't think new folks join the hobby to see their corals survive and not grow, I think new hobbyists join with thoughts of corals growing like weeds and getting rich from selling all the frags. If you haven't tried 1 watt per gallon or 1.5 watts per gallon, how can you defend it or suggest it?

 

[Mebbid]

"What will get the most people over the finish line"

Woof, that's tough. If I were to say what would be best is to make a database of the available light offerings that has to be updated regularly as new lights are being brought out. Separate the categories of lights out by price: Low, med, high and then take par measurements in a 2ft x 2ft area or smaller if the light is for nano tanks. Then give setup directions for each intensity and a more blue heavy spectrum and a white heavy spectrum.

That however isn't realistic.

A realistic answer would be to endorse a few offerings at each price point and give setup guides for each depending on what people want to achieve. The hard part there would be getting people to agree which ones to endorse.

 

[BCash74]

Ryan,

I think the answer to your question could be solved through simple software implementation. I'll use the radion's as an example although this could apply to any lighting system.

You unbox and set-up, load the app on your phone, register, and then you go through the set-up wizard. Each question is a branch point and how you answer will prompt the next series of questions.

Questions 1) "Use our wizard (recommended) or go it alone (expert only)". If you go it alone you get access to all the bells and whistles, color adjustment and intensity. You're on your own. If you follow the "wizard" you get to question 2
Question 2) "What are you caring for: Fish-only, LPS/softies, or SPS?"
Question 3) "What is the configuration of your tank?" (i.e. dimensions/depth, number of lights, how they are spaced, and their height off the water)
Questions 4) "What color light do you prefer for peak daylight hours?" (At this point there will be a number of presets from lower Kelvin to higher kelvin, but the key is that they are "preset". There can also be a description for each such as "this color spectrum is known to produce better growth" or "this color spectrum is believed to provide better overall coloration, fluorescence, etc..." Depending on the color chosen, the intensity is appropriately adjusted and cannot be overridden; this is preset based on how your answered the previous questions. Timing of peak intensity is preset and cannot be overridden (say somewhere between 4-6 hours).
Question 5) "You can have up to a total of 12 hours of lighting: would you like that before, after, or evenly divided around the peak intensity." This non-peak lighting is automatically set to be 50% (ballpark) of the peak intensity and cannot be overridden.
Question 6) "When would you like your lights to come on? When would you like your lights to go off?"
Questions 7) "Would you like some moonlight for an hour after the lights go off or would you prefer your lights to follow a lunar cycle?"

Done.

It seems to me that if you specify to the wizard that you have a 90 gallon tank (18"x24"x48") with two XR30's mounted at 9", then the Ecotech (or whoever) could set the parameters to get you within a reasonable PAR level based on predetermined lab testing. No PAR meter needed. The color presets would be based on a system similar to what Kessil Logic uses so that newbies cannot dial something up to high and mess it up.

Simple programming that guides the user to get it close enough that 90% of the time it works out well.

"Grandma, go buy two "brand x" lights and their mounting system. Follow their wizard set-up, pick the color of the light you like, and I'll come pick you up next weekand take you to the LFS next week to get you some frogspawn and a toad stool leather" :)

Brad

 

[BCash74]

BTW, I understand your preference for T5's. I desperately miss my halides and VHO combo . I have no idea the PAR on this tank, but it grew stuff like mad. My "wizard" for this was a guy named Tom at a LFS in Rochester, NY: "Do what I tell you and you'll be fine." He was right!

 

[sjfishguy]

Mojo, are those LED Watts?

Ryan demonstrated in a video that 1 watt per gallon was sufficient for LPS/softies for 5 of the 6 fixtures tested. The 6 fixtures tested covers almost every type of LED we use in the hobby. Despite what some people think, claim, or even market...most fixtures are more similar than they are different.

For SPS it comes out to around 2.75w per gallon.

The 1 outlier was the AI Blade that needed less wattage to achieve the same PAR as the others.

While it certainly isn't a perfect science and one must apply a little critical thinking, it is a great starting point to get things going in the right direction. You put roughly 75% of the power into the blue/violet channels and the other 25% into white/red/green. Using a ratio of 70/30 or 80/20 is also fine if someone knows they like more white or more blue.

Some fixtures tell you a rough estimate for watts used. For others, a simple $30 watt meter works.

Sorry, but this is a perfect example of why so many people have problems and don’t know why. “Set blue to 75 and white to 25” what if 50% of the fixtures is white chips? What if 20% of the fixture is white chops? This blanket statement cannot be made because the ratio is so different between fixtures

 

[Featherweight]

If you were going to design the ideal way for a newer to intermediate reefer to select the right light for their tank the first time and tune it to the application without harming the animals what would it be?

The bar: Getting the highest percentage of people across the finish line, with the fewest hurdles, and at a reasonable cost. Reasonable is relative to the tank.

Reefis with quanta helix bars. Support smaller USA based businesses, full customizability, more power than one needs, better prices than ecotech etc.

 

[Nukareef]

Either use test equipment or trial and error, the rest is opinion. Over time you learn what to look for, but at first people usually chase numbers or trends. Once you find what works, leave it alone.

 

[rtparty]

Sorry, but this is a perfect example of why so many people have problems and don’t know why. “Set blue to 75 and white to 25” what if 50% of the fixtures is white chips? What if 20% of the fixture is white chops? This blanket statement cannot be made because the ratio is so different between fixtures

This is a perfect example of not using just a little bit of critical thinking.

You aren’t setting blue to 75%. You are trying to tune 75% of the watts to the blue channels. If your fixture can’t do that, then bump them as high as you can and then fill in from there.

White LEDs are just blue LEDs with a coating on them. The majority of light from a white chip is blue.

Just a minute use of critical thinking answers your questions

 

[Marc G-L]

So much hype re:the most expensive lights. I went big on pumps Sicce. After a lot of research, I came across Glowrium. 25 years in biz of plant lighting. Got 2 x 48" marine LED'S. 95 watts each. 4 panels that can be independently controlled and a slew of color spectrum to tweek any way you want.
They have pre designed lighting routines, or you can customize. dang lights even have a temp probe and both blue tooth and wifi control options and alerts. Got them on Amazon for $159 each 2 yr warranty added a third year for $27 ea. Very very satisfied with how they perform.
Not a promoter but now I have more $$$ to spend on exotic corals or fish.

 

[andy28115]

I would say begin with a bargain light to see if the hobby sticks, rent a par meter and research the animals corals whatever you are keeping. You can always upgrade down the line, my brother has viperspectras over his 185 and has grown everything from anemones to clams. There is so much more to this hobby then lighting as we all know that I think start cheap(cheap corals, cheap fish, cheap equipment except return pump). You can always upgrade down the line, also buy used!!!!!! That 50 percent hit you take on most things really stings if you get out of the hobby quickly!

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Before LED, halide, T5 combo was the answer to the question. Because there was not any other options. (maybe T5 only on smaller tanks). That combo grew coral. It is still possible to use that, but increasingly difficult to apply because of availability of said products. But it is not hard to mimic that lighting combo. You need a point light source and a fill light source. For the point light source, you have many options, just make sure the light has proper Par/Pur coverage for your tank. Most of my tanks run Radion XR30 G4's that I bought used for under $200. But because that light is hitting about the seven year mark, you have to be quite aware of its previous use.
But for your Point light source, things you need to consider are what works for you as a reefer. There are great lights for cheap that the only control you have is manual on/off. The more controllable the light is usually reflects the price tag. Once you have decided on the light/s that covers your Par/Pur, coverage and controllability. You need to add your fill lights. This I think is the most important thing on a modern reef tank that is overlooked. On an actual reef, light is coming from everywhere. The sun is your point light source, but it is reflecting off of the ocean back into the atmosphere to become a fill light source. This is what you want to mimic. I have personally found that the AI Blade grow does just that, because of the unique build, it mimics T5's and the sky. There are other "Bar Lights" but I think most are just made up of linear single point light sources.
I do have a nano 15g that I run a Kessil 360 with a narrowing reflector. That tank does fine with just that because the glass becomes your fill light.
I personally believe it is better to have a higher powered light that is turned down that a lower powered light that is running max. The fixture will usually run cooler an last much longer.
OK, that's my two nickels on the subject... Grandma can I have some Banana bread now?

 

[Marc G-L]

I don't miss seeing sun spots for half an hour after lifting my T-5 halide tank hood to do tank maintenance. Especially when my tomato Clowns thought hands and finger were something they should try and remove from my wrist. Give me adjustable LED's any day.