How Do You Maintain Nitrates Without Triggering Algae Growth?

[zaddy]

Algae thrive when there are nitrates and phosphates in the tank, so reducing these nutrients is key to controlling algae growth. However, having zero nitrates or phosphates isn’t ideal because corals require some level of these nutrients to thrive. This raises the question: if you need low but non-zero levels of nitrates and phosphates, wouldn’t that inevitably lead to algae growth?

In other words, how can a tank maintain nitrate and phosphate levels above zero without constantly battling algae? Am I missing something?

 

[rtparty]

Algae doesn’t thrive because there is nitrogen and phosphorus available. Algae thrives because there is no predation aka lack of clean up crew.

 

[zaddy]

Algae doesn’t thrive because there is nitrogen and phosphorus available. Algae thrives because there is no predation aka lack of clean up crew.

thanks for the link and insight, i’m listening to this now.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Algae thrive when there are nitrates and phosphates in the tank, so reducing these nutrients is key to controlling algae growth.

I do not agree with that premise. reducing nutrients to the point where algae doesn't grow usually leads to corals also being limited.

herbivores are one good way.

 

[twentyleagues]

Its been said by better than me.
If you can grow corals you will grow algae. Having things that eat the algae is the key. Coral reefs are not algae free there are all sorts of algae eaters keeping it in check.

 

[Matt L]

Having a strong CUC of snails and urchins. I don’t skimp out on buying them, and consider them just as important as the coral and fish.

 

[exnisstech]

Algae thrive when there are nitrates and phosphates in the tank, so reducing these nutrients is key to controlling algae growth. However, having zero nitrates or phosphates isn’t ideal because corals require some level of these nutrients to thrive. This raises the question: if you need low but non-zero levels of nitrates and phosphates, wouldn’t that inevitably lead to algae growth?

In other words, how can a tank maintain nitrate and phosphate levels above zero without constantly battling algae? Am I missing something?

I have 3 tanks running but only one has a nuisance algae problem. N and P in that tank run at or near 0. Another tank tested yesterday had N 15 and P 0.54 and that tank has no nuisance algae. Many people blame higher levels of N and P for algae issues but I'm not convinced that is the cause. I will say my problem tank is too small for herbivorous fish. I have tangs in the other two tanks. While snails, crabs along with some urchins can help I've found them to be poor at cleaning rocks with the exception of my pin cushion urchins. My fish on the other hand graze the rocks all day. Having coral growing on the rocks helps also IMO.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Its not so much about the nitrate level, its more about the doc's.

This is an amazing article if you have the time to read it.

DOC is The Most Important Parameter For A Healthy Reef Tank: Here’s a New Method to Manage It | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

In this article, I will provide an overview of my take on the current zeitgeist of reefing and explain why the entire industry is ignoring a critical aspect of coral care. I will explain what issues…

reefbuilders.com

 

[sixty_reefer]

The trick is to find the right balance between nitrification and denitrification, this reduces the accumulation of nitrogen that can feed the algae.

 

[zaddy]

The trick is to find the right balance between nitrification and denitrification, this reduces the accumulation of nitrogen that can feed the algae.

and this balance is achieved via feeding?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

and this balance is achieved via feeding?

I don’t agree that such a balance prevents algae growth, or has any other importance. A reef tank need not have any amount of either one of those, but especially they need not match. I’m not sure if all reef tanks have any denitrification.

 

[sixty_reefer]

and this balance is achieved via feeding?

Imo, by ensuring you have a adequate import and export of nitrogen.
This can be done by using bacteria, having a designated area in the system for nitrification and denitrification or by using other organisms that can control excess nitrogen such as algae beds or large coral colonies.

 

[zaddy]

Imo, by ensuring you have a adequate import and export of nitrogen.
This can be done by using bacteria, having a designated area in the system for nitrification and denitrification or by using other organisms that can control excess nitrogen such as algae beds or large coral colonies.

interesting, will look into it thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

interesting, will look into it thanks

Look no further than tank with high nitrate and phosphate without algae problems.

Rich Ross - Home Tank - guess the phosphate

This tank was built before r2r, here is a link to some links about the build. http://packedhead.net/home-reef/ Current test results: 03-17-2017 Ammonia (NH3-4) Good 0 0.000 - 0.050 mg/L 03-17-2017 Nitrite (NO2) Good 0.006 0.000 - 0.100 mg/L 03-17-2017 Phosphate...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Subsea]

Its not so much about the nitrate level, its more about the doc's.

This is an amazing article if you have the time to read it.

DOC is The Most Important Parameter For A Healthy Reef Tank: Here’s a New Method to Manage It | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

In this article, I will provide an overview of my take on the current zeitgeist of reefing and explain why the entire industry is ignoring a critical aspect of coral care. I will explain what issues…

reefbuilders.com

Everything that grows needs N, P & K. As has been already posted; it’s about consumers & competitors, otherwise coral reefs in the ocean would be algae dominated if not for herbivores.

However, DOC (dissolved organic carbon) is much more important with respect to nuisance algae/bacteria slime than nitrogen & phosphorus.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

However, DOC (dissolved organic carbon) is much more important with respect to nuisance algae than nitrogen & phosphorus.

What is the evidence for that statement?

 

[DIYreefer]

Tang gang. Algae stands no chance!

 

[Subsea]

(However, DOC (dissolved organic carbon) is much more important with respect to nuisance algae than nitrogen & phosphorus.)

What is the evidence for that statement?

DOC is The Most Important Parameter For A Healthy Reef Tank: Here’s a New Method to Manage It | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

In this article, I will provide an overview of my take on the current zeitgeist of reefing and explain why the entire industry is ignoring a critical aspect of coral care. I will explain what issues…

reefbuilders.com

“Dr. Rohwer is a microbial ecologist at San Diego University. He was the first person to use shotgun metagenomics in 2002 and helped open the door to using omics techniques in modern science. He and Dr. Nancy Knowlton founded the holobiont theory of corals and were the first to propose that corals were metaorganisms. In addition to these significant breakthroughs, he helped develop the DDAM model of reef recession (which I will discuss in depth) and the Piggyback-the-Winner model of bacteriophage regulation (which I will discuss in a future article).”

“After reviewing Dr. Rowher and his colleague’s work, I have gleaned much that I think could drastically improve the care of our animals. In the remainder of this article, I will summarize my findings, reflect on our current methods, and extrapolate where I think we can improve the care we give our corals.”

 

[CHSUB]

(However, DOC (dissolved organic carbon) is much more important with respect to nuisance algae than nitrogen & phosphorus.)

DOC is The Most Important Parameter For A Healthy Reef Tank: Here’s a New Method to Manage It | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

In this article, I will provide an overview of my take on the current zeitgeist of reefing and explain why the entire industry is ignoring a critical aspect of coral care. I will explain what issues…

reefbuilders.com

“Dr. Rohwer is a microbial ecologist at San Diego University. He was the first person to use shotgun metagenomics in 2002 and helped open the door to using omics techniques in modern science. He and Dr. Nancy Knowlton founded the holobiont theory of corals and were the first to propose that corals were metaorganisms. In addition to these significant breakthroughs, he helped develop the DDAM model of reef recession (which I will discuss in depth) and the Piggyback-the-Winner model of bacteriophage regulation (which I will discuss in a future article).”

“After reviewing Dr. Rowher and his colleague’s work, I have gleaned much that I think could drastically improve the care of our animals. In the remainder of this article, I will summarize my findings, reflect on our current methods, and extrapolate where I think we can improve the care we give our corals.”

Funny, “not like a clown”, everything in this article is repackaged information from the mid 1990s. Not that I would disagree but the only “new” information is a few hyperbolic terms…

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

(However, DOC (dissolved organic carbon) is much more important with respect to nuisance algae than nitrogen & phosphorus.)

DOC is The Most Important Parameter For A Healthy Reef Tank: Here’s a New Method to Manage It | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

In this article, I will provide an overview of my take on the current zeitgeist of reefing and explain why the entire industry is ignoring a critical aspect of coral care. I will explain what issues…

reefbuilders.com

“Dr. Rohwer is a microbial ecologist at San Diego University. He was the first person to use shotgun metagenomics in 2002 and helped open the door to using omics techniques in modern science. He and Dr. Nancy Knowlton founded the holobiont theory of corals and were the first to propose that corals were metaorganisms. In addition to these significant breakthroughs, he helped develop the DDAM model of reef recession (which I will discuss in depth) and the Piggyback-the-Winner model of bacteriophage regulation (which I will discuss in a future article).”

“After reviewing Dr. Rowher and his colleague’s work, I have gleaned much that I think could drastically improve the care of our animals. In the remainder of this article, I will summarize my findings, reflect on our current methods, and extrapolate where I think we can improve the care we give our corals.”

I’ve seen that paper before and reread it just now. It does not suggest that doc encourages algae growth ( nor does it).

What it does claim is summarized best by this section from it:

High values of DOC cause them to become outcompeted by harmful bacteria, which then causes coral to die from disease. As more corals die, there’s more room for algae to colonize, reinforcing the cycle.

while I do not agree with all of the assertions in the paper, even if one does, there is no place where it suggests that doc directly boosts algae growth. It merely says doc is bad for corals and causes disease that kill them, with algae taking over.

In a reef tank with algae issues, it’s almost never because corals have died and algae took its place. The algae is growing all over, on rock, glass, plastic, and even sand. It’s not that a coral used to be there that died of a bacterial pathogen. There was never anything else there and algae took the location and thrived.