How many drains / return (bulkheads) to still?

[pdxmonkeyboy]

I don't know why someone has not stated the obvious yet. You are trying to use the WRONG pump for your application, plan and simple. You are NOT going to find a DC powered pump that can handle 9' of head effectively. They are just not built for that. What you need for your application is a reeflo pump. A snapper or dart gold would be ideal. They can push massive amount of head pressure and are not negatively affected by necking down the flow rate with a gate valve on the outlet.

No, they don't have a fancy pants DC power supply with neat lights and functions, but what they do have is build quality that will outlast nearly every pump on the market, fantastic customer service, and a 5 year warranty. Show me a DC pump that has a 5 year warranty? The upwards of $1k red dragon pump.. 2 years.

FLOW CHART ALL PUMPS

And to boot, you can actually call reeflo and say this is my situation and they will give you expert advice on which pump, plumbing, etc.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Is a fitting more likely to fail/leak with more or less pressure?

Not really, all of the pressures that aquariums deal with are FAR FAR FAR below the threshold of standard schedule 40 pipe and fittings.

 

[dreamcatcherr9]

I don't know why someone has not stated the obvious yet. You are trying to use the WRONG pump for your application, plan and simple. You are NOT going to find a DC powered pump that can handle 9' of head effectively. They are just not built for that. What you need for your application is a reeflo pump. A snapper or dart gold would be ideal. They can push massive amount of head pressure and are not negatively affected by necking down the flow rate with a gate valve on the outlet.

No, they don't have a fancy pants DC power supply with neat lights and functions, but what they do have is build quality that will outlast nearly every pump on the market, fantastic customer service, and a 5 year warranty. Show me a DC pump that has a 5 year warranty? The upwards of $1k red dragon pump.. 2 years.

FLOW CHART ALL PUMPS

And to boot, you can actually call reeflo and say this is my situation and they will give you expert advice on which pump, plumbing, etc.

Thank you! That’s straight to point advice on the question I asked. So.....no DC pump (in your opinion).

But I didn’t think 9ft head pressure was much? Unless I am miss calculating (guessing). 3 ft stand. 2 ft tank. A few extra feet for plumbing and elbows. It’s a “normal” tank isn’t it? No sump in basement or different room (just under tank).

 

[Miller535]

I don't know why someone has not stated the obvious yet. You are trying to use the WRONG pump for your application, plan and simple. You are NOT going to find a DC powered pump that can handle 9' of head effectively. They are just not built for that. What you need for your application is a reeflo pump. A snapper or dart gold would be ideal. They can push massive amount of head pressure and are not negatively affected by necking down the flow rate with a gate valve on the outlet.

No, they don't have a fancy pants DC power supply with neat lights and functions, but what they do have is build quality that will outlast nearly every pump on the market, fantastic customer service, and a 5 year warranty. Show me a DC pump that has a 5 year warranty? The upwards of $1k red dragon pump.. 2 years.

FLOW CHART ALL PUMPS

And to boot, you can actually call reeflo and say this is my situation and they will give you expert advice on which pump, plumbing, etc.

That is not true, the abyzz pump easily can. And so can the pump the op was looking at. The pump the op was looking at can handle head pressure up to 18 feet and at 9 feet according to it's specs has 1,300 gph. And the abyzz has multiple times that.

 

[Miller535]

Not really, all of the pressures that aquariums deal with are FAR FAR FAR below the threshold of standard schedule 40 pipe and fittings.

You are right they they are below the rated maximum pressure. But more pressure still means more likely to fail.

 

[Miller535]

Thank you! That’s straight to point advice on the question I asked. So.....no DC pump (in your opinion).

But I didn’t think 9ft head pressure was much? Unless I am miss calculating (guessing). 3 ft stand. 2 ft tank. A few extra feet for plumbing and elbows. It’s a “normal” tank isn’t it? No sump in basement or different room (just under tank).

There is no way that is 9ft head pressure.

 

[dreamcatcherr9]

Foot prints for Reefflo are to large (?). Won’t work in the sump (Bashsea) I was looking at. 2 Various would fit. Or one Abyss or Red Dragon.

I thought DC pumps would make it easier to dial in flow rate? I thought Various 8 was a good pick (especially if two)??

So, anyone else have any recommendations? Am I just going in circles?

 

[dreamcatcherr9]

There is no way that is 9ft head pressure.

So what is it then? How do you calculate? What did I miss?

 

[Miller535]

I am trying to find the online head loss calculator I used before. It had easy fields to type in how many vertical feet, how many horizontal feet, how many 90's, and so on.

 

[Miller535]

Here is a somewhat guide I found


To calculate head pressure, each vertical foot equal 1’ of head pressure. Each elbow equals 1’ of head pressure and finally every 10’ of horizontal pipe is equal to 1’ of head pressure. As an example, if you need to pump water 4’ vertically, through 2 elbows and a 10’ horizontal run, your pump will be under about 7’ of head pressure. (a diagram would be helpful).

 

[Miller535]

I do not know how you are going to plumb it. But most "average tanks" they claim to have 4-6ft head loss.

According to the directions I posted, it says 1 foot of head loss for every 10 feet of horizontal. I think that's where you went wrong.

 

[dreamcatcherr9]

Here is a somewhat guide I found


To calculate head pressure, each vertical foot equal 1’ of head pressure. Each elbow equals 1’ of head pressure and finally every 10’ of horizontal pipe is equal to 1’ of head pressure. As an example, if you need to pump water 4’ vertically, through 2 elbows and a 10’ horizontal run, your pump will be under about 7’ of head pressure. (a diagram would be helpful).

Just a rough idea I was trying to use to gather my thoughts...

 

[dreamcatcherr9]

So sump under tank. Stand is 3ft tall. Tank is 2ft tall. About 1-2 feet vertical travel. 3 elbows, and 2 unions. That was my rough guess of 9ft head pressure. But I’m a noob! That’s why I asked!

 

[Matt Carden]

Thank you! That’s straight to point advice on the question I asked. So.....no DC pump (in your opinion).

But I didn’t think 9ft head pressure was much? Unless I am miss calculating (guessing). 3 ft stand. 2 ft tank. A few extra feet for plumbing and elbows. It’s a “normal” tank isn’t it? No sump in basement or different room (just under tank).

If you are concerned about the cost of high end AC pumps you could consider a Sicce Syncra 9.0 at $250. Two of those with 9 ft of head should Definitely get you
2400 gph through your sump. Hydor is another alternative AC pump.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

To calculate head pressure, each vertical foot equal 1’ of head pressure. Each elbow equals 1’ of head pressure and finally every 10’ of horizontal pipe is equal to 1’ of head pressure. As an example, if you need to pump water 4’ vertically, through 2 elbows and a 10’ horizontal run, your pump will be under about 7’ of head pressure. (a diagram would be helpful).

I am sorry, but this is incorrect. How do I know? Because I spend about 20% of my work day modeling fluid dynamics. Your head loss is simply the delta (difference) between your pump height and the disharge point. Sounds like you have 5' of head. The pressure loss from elbows and reductions is much more complicated and you need several variable that you currently don't have, principally velocity. The loss from bends in the system is loss from friction and turbulance, not from hydrostatic pressure (head loss). If you upsize pipe size, you have the exact same head loss, but you will reduce your frictional loss.

I will say this, some people go way out of their way to prevent having too many elbows and what not, which is a noble pursuit, but given the flow rates and pressure normally seen in the aquarium world they difference in flow rate is very negligible. BRS actually did a video on it, one of their reef myth or fact videos.

ANYHOW. The various would be a great pump. They are quiet, dependable, and quite popular. IF you want to spend less money then look at a jebao DCT pump. They are equally as silent and trouble free in my experience (I have both of them).

Cheers

 

[dreamcatcherr9]

If you are concerned about the cost of high end AC pumps you could consider a Sicce Syncra 9.0 at $250. Two of those with 9 ft of head should Definitely get you
2400 gph through your sump. Hydor is another alternative AC pump.

Thank you. And honestly, I don’t know how much flow through sump I’m looking for. I know in tank numbers are thrown around 20x-40x, but that’s achieved through power heads and wave makers (?). I also read you don’t want water traveling through sump to fast. I was guessing at 10x 240 for the 2400, but do I really need that?

And I’m taking cost into consideration (but I’ll spend what I need to); but I want the good pump that will do the job by itself and fit in the footprint of the return sump area I had to work with.

 

[dreamcatcherr9]

I am sorry, but this is incorrect. How do I know? Because I spend about 20% of my work day modeling fluid dynamics. Your head loss is simply the delta (difference) between your pump height and the disharge point. Sounds like you have 5' of head. The pressure loss from elbows and reductions is much more complicated and you need several variable that you currently don't have, principally velocity. The loss from bends in the system is loss from friction and turbulance, not from hydrostatic pressure (head loss). If you upsize pipe size, you have the exact same head loss, but you will reduce your frictional loss.

I will say this, some people go way out of their way to prevent having too many elbows and what not, which is a noble pursuit, but given the flow rates and pressure normally seen in the aquarium world they difference in flow rate is very negligible. BRS actually did a video on it, one of their reef myth or fact videos.

ANYHOW. The various would be a great pump. They are quiet, dependable, and quite popular. IF you want to spend less money then look at a jebao DCT pump. They are equally as silent and trouble free in my experience (I have both of them).

Cheers

Thank you!!! That makes a lot of sense. And in your opinion, would 1 Various 8 rated at 2700 gph (18 ft max head pressure) do the job for a roughly 240g tank? Or should I go with 2??

 

[Miller535]

I am sorry, but this is incorrect. How do I know? Because I spend about 20% of my work day modeling fluid dynamics. Your head loss is simply the delta (difference) between your pump height and the disharge point. Sounds like you have 5' of head. The pressure loss from elbows and reductions is much more complicated and you need several variable that you currently don't have, principally velocity. The loss from bends in the system is loss from friction and turbulance, not from hydrostatic pressure (head loss). If you upsize pipe size, you have the exact same head loss, but you will reduce your frictional loss.

I will say this, some people go way out of their way to prevent having too many elbows and what not, which is a noble pursuit, but given the flow rates and pressure normally seen in the aquarium world they difference in flow rate is very negligible. BRS actually did a video on it, one of their reef myth or fact videos.

ANYHOW. The various would be a great pump. They are quiet, dependable, and quite popular. IF you want to spend less money then look at a jebao DCT pump. They are equally as silent and trouble free in my experience (I have both of them).

Cheers

No need to be sorry, I just knew there was no way it was 9ft. And this was all I could seem to find.

 

[ca1ore]

Is a fitting more likely to fail/leak with more or less pressure?

At the pressures we're talking about, I actually suspect it makes very little difference. It was your comment 'even split is less pressure and less likely to have a failure then all that pressure through one pipe' that didn't make any sense to me. Given that fittings and longer runs of pipe put back pressure on the pump, seems to me it'd be the exact opposite of what you said. Least pressure would be a single, direct run without any unnecessary occlusions.

 

[ca1ore]

If you upsize pipe size, you have the exact same head loss, but you will reduce your frictional loss.

Yup! I have about 12' of hydrostatic head pressure on my system. PW250 pump was pushing 1,400 gph though 1" pipe …. upsized to 1 1/2" pipe and got almost to 1,600.