How many of you using our marketplace are being asked to pay with unprotected forms of payment (i.e. Zelle, CashApp, PayPal Friends and Family, etc.)?

[Daniel@R2R]

We're seen more reports lately of sellers asking buyers to pay using unprotected forms of payment like Zelle, CashApp, PayPal Friends and Family, or Venmo (without Goods and Services protection). Has this happened to you?

We want to be sure that everyone understands our rules regarding this. We have a longstanding rule that requiring or even requesting payment through unprotected payment platforms is not allowed. You can find this in our selling forum rules, and we even made a longer explanatory post about it that you can find in the stickies in the selling forums: Please remember that sellers on R2R are NOT allowed to ask for unprotected forms of payment (PP friends & family, unprotected Venmo payment, etc.) The ONLY exception to this rule is for local pickup transactions where a buyer can inspect the item being purchased in person.

Additionally, sellers are not allowed to add on extra fees for PayPal's seller fees (this has sometimes been done as a way to push buyers to use unprotected forms of payments), all selling fees (other than shipping) should be built into the asking price of the item.

We regret that we live in a time and culture where this type of policy is necessary. However, due to the number of online scammers, this is a rule we simply cannot bend on. And because this is a growing issue, moving forward, we are going to be enforcing this rule with zero tolerance.

Simply put, our policy is that if a seller requests an unprotected form of payment, this will result in the loss of selling privileges here.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Please feel free to discuss. Has this happened to you? Did you report it? Why or why not?

Our goal with this policy is the safety of our community. We do believe that most people are well-intentioned and would not knowingly intend to rip off another reefer. Unfortunately, in a large community and with so many active scammers in the world, we have seen the need for being clear about selling forum rules so that members can buy and sell with confidence. One of our moderators actually posted some excellent thoughts regarding buying and selling online sometime ago: Watch out before buying or selling

 

[Birdman Broham]

Yep, just happened to me which is why I reported. Thanks for stepping in. Buyer asked me to ship first after he received he would pay.

 

[The_Paradox]

I have had it happen a few times this year. Sometimes I paid non-secured, sometimes I noped out. Depended on the seller. I’m a big proponent of caveat emptor as well as not snitching. R2R gives you fair warning as does/should common sense. You know what they say about a fool and his money though.

 

[Luke Schnabel]

Just ran into someone trying to sell an OG Bounce on Facebook for $300.00. I asked for his PayPal and he said they only do Zelle so I backed out. PayPal is the safest to use for buyers because the protection they offer. But, on the flip side sellers also get scammed out as well due to people playing the system and PayPal almost always leaning with the buyer in most cases.

I think using only PayPal is best. Although in some cases maybe the admins should moderate a dispute of clear PayPal Fraud and ban the user involved.

 

[MrWellington]

I'm curious what makes Zelle/CashApp unsafe? Both the sender and recipient need to be registered with the application and an associated bank. Other than no ability to challenge a payment (or get a refund), the transaction itself is very secure.

 

[Luke Schnabel]

they do not have the support like PayPal does if you get scammed. That could be your corals came dead and the seller won’t help you to you got scammed out of the money entirely. PayPal is the clear winner in this department.

 

[Sleepingtiger]

I sometimes get told to send Paypal friends and family. I tell them no, but willing to add a few bucks extra to cover their cost.

 

[Hooz]

Venmo (owned by PayPal) has buyer protection as does PayPal Goods & Services. So I think Venmo should be considered an "accepted option".

I understand the whole buyer protection thing, especially in this world full of scammers, but it's important to remember that the scam can go both ways, and PayPal sides with the buyer in 99.9% of cases, even when the seller has proof of shipping/delivery/etc.

It sucks to be scammed out of your cash, but it also sucks to be scammed out of your goods (and associated shipping costs, etc) as well. I'm not sure there is a good solution.

 

[Lbrdsoxfan]

I sometimes get told to send Paypal friends and family. I tell them no, but willing to add a few bucks extra to cover their cost.

This. I'll eat the upcharge from using paypal.

 

[Opus]

Venmo (owned by PayPal) has buyer protection as does PayPal Goods & Services. So I think Venmo should be considered an "accepted option".

I understand the whole buyer protection thing, especially in this world full of scammers, but it's important to remember that the scam can go both ways, and PayPal sides with the buyer in 99.9% of cases, even when the seller has proof of shipping/delivery/etc.

It sucks to be scammed out of your cash, but it also sucks to be scammed out of your goods (and associated shipping costs, etc) as well. I'm not sure there is a good solution.

Unfortunately this is happening all over and I'm afraid that credit cards may be the first to put their foot down on protection. Some cards have experienced up to a 20% increase in fraud over the last year to 2 years. At some point they may have to start taking drastic measures like Target is with closing stores with very high theft rates.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Although in some cases maybe the admins should moderate a dispute of clear PayPal Fraud and ban the user involved.

Yes, and we have had to do this at times

 

[Gtinnel]

I’ve had one person ask me to pay the fee for G&S which I believe is also against forum rules but I’ve never had anyone insist I use an unsecured form of payment.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I’ve had one person ask me to pay the fee for G&S which I believe is also against forum rules but I’ve never had anyone insist I use an unsecured form of payment.

You are correct. It is also against the rules for a seller to add additional fees to the transaction (only exception is shipping costs).

 

[Luke Schnabel]

R2R has always served me well selling some of my extra coral. Always use PayPal even if you’re not on Reef2Reef. Just my two cents.

 

[rtparty]

I recently saw a thread where the seller was asking people to pay outside of PayPal. So it’s definitely happening

 

[Jedi Knghit]

I've seen a few ads that stated paypal fees were extra. What should we do to bring those to the mods attention in the future?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Yep, just happened to me which is why I reported. Thanks for stepping in. Buyer asked me to ship first after he received he would pay.

I wonder if he has cars for sale? I will buy it and pay later if he'll ship it first.
Offer him Narcan

 

[Birdman Broham]

I wonder if he has cars for sale? I will buy it and pay later if he'll ship it first.
Offer him Narcan

Don’t wanna get back into it. Daniel handled it

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I've seen a few ads that stated paypal fees were extra. What should we do to bring those to the mods attention in the future?

Use the report link at the bottom of the post to report it to the mods. This link creates a ticket that we on the staff get alerted to.