How many of you using our marketplace are being asked to pay with unprotected forms of payment (i.e. Zelle, CashApp, PayPal Friends and Family, etc.)?

Have you been asked by a seller to pay with unprotected forms of payment?

  • Yes, but not recently

    Votes: 13 20.3%
  • Yes, recently

    Votes: 17 26.6%
  • No.

    Votes: 32 50.0%
  • Other (Post in the thread)

    Votes: 2 3.1%

  • Total voters
    64

albano

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I don't care what the board does - it is their to do with what they wish. However, r2r needs to stop saying that PayPal offers protection for live good sales - they do not and they are very explicit and clear about it. You send money for live things and if ANYTHING goes wrong from a scam to a dead coral you are not getting a penny back.

The distinction is too important. People have been burned. LIVE ITEMS are not covered by PayPal protection. DO NOT believe otherwise because a r2r staff member says so.
Hadn’t heard that before…
 

scontent

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I believe a transaction I'm involved in may have lead to this thread. I copied it below. I know there are scammers in the world. But there are honest ppl as well.

In my attempt to successfully complete this transaction safely for both parties. I sent the seller below. He has my name and can look me up on PayPal to send the invoice. Again, I AM NOT A SCAMMER.

Hello
Let me start out by apologizing for any of my actions that may have brought us to this point. In my haste for a new tank for my Oscars, I may have come across as a scammer. That is not and has never been my intention. I'm an actual buyer in the the market for a 300 gallon tank. My only ask with this transaction is to state on the invoice there are no scratches or cracks on the tank. Again, this way the shipping company is responsible for any damage in transit. I will pay via your preferred method (PayPal) and wait till you are comfortable with the successful transfer of the funds. Once you're satisfied, I will then arrange to have the tank picked up at your convenience.

I'm not sure how else to safely complete this transaction. Please advise if you have any other concerns or safer methods?
 

Amstar

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So this has happened to me twice in the last two weeks. Posted in the WTB something - was sent a message “hey my friend has what you’re looking for, their email is ..”. I email then they send pics of it and say payment by Venmo - nope no thanks

Then today get a message hey my friends husband just passed away they have all kinds of stuff - what you are looking for - call them at this number - ya I didn’t even investigate that more

Those that have connected me via message have one post to there account

Ever happen to anyone else
 
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Daniel@R2R

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So this has happened to me twice in the last two weeks. Posted in the WTB something - was sent a message “hey my friend has what you’re looking for, their email is ..”. I email then they send pics of it and say payment by Venmo - nope no thanks

Then today get a message hey my friends husband just passed away they have all kinds of stuff - what you are looking for - call them at this number - ya I didn’t even investigate that more

Those that have connected me via message have one post to there account

Ever happen to anyone else
Yep. This is a scam attempt. If you report those, we automatically ban those accounts.
 

Reefering1

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Yep. This is a scam attempt. If you report those, we automatically ban those accounts.
I've heard the vendor question multiple times with no official response... are they held to the same PP standard? I would assume a registered vendor can accept/demand any preferred payment, just as any other store in America... just looking for clarification of the official r2r rule..(?)
 

Reefering1

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Yep. This is a scam attempt. If you report those, we automatically ban those accounts.

Idk why this is such a difficult question to get a answer to.. would solve all the disagreements. Don't like PP, go vendor(right? ) or no?
 

jda

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You will not likely get a response on the vendor question... been this way for many years. It was like this on RC too with special treatment for special people and while this place was partially started out of disdain for that kind of stuff it is just what happens when money gets involved and you start to run a business and have lives to support and stuff. Who needs to pay r2r if all business is driven to their site anyway, right? The place(s) that replaces this place will start out the same way too but then they will move in the same direction - maybe some rich benefactor will pay the staff and server costs, but I doubt that such a person exists.

I personally don't appreciate the lowest-common-denominator stuff where the folks who are on here a lot to help, educate and move the hobby forward are treated the same way as a potential scammer. This is bad management, not even good management. Of course, bad leadership or even good leadership are better. I am a highest common denominator guy, but I get that this takes work.

I try to lead, so I have to have a solution instead of complaints, so here is mine. Let people pay however they want... if they are dumb, then they are dumb. This can be a cheap lesson for a lifetime. I have seen too many times that trying to idiot-proof something just allows for larger idiots to show up. Allow feedback both good and bad on the scammer or bad sellers posts. The only advice that I would give as a board is to have all of the transaction out in the open and not in PM... and do not allow people to edit their posts. Transparent paper trail will do more than the current friends and family policy. The whole board could tell somebody that their friends husband passing away is likely bunk.

For example, see people selling Rainbow BTAs on here as Colorado Sunbursts. I cannot comment that these are not CSBs since they don't have the tell-tale signs - you can send a PM where people ignore it. It would be a lot easier to offer this warning and let the buyer decide than to have them pay, find out a year later, call paypal and be told that they are out of time and that even if they were in time that live items are not covered at all.
 

Reefering1

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Its disappointing, understandable but disappointing none the less. Would be nice to get a response from the "leaders" though. Their never that far away when it fins time to manipulate(edit) a thread or course it. Agree about dumb people being dumb, can't fix stupid, but you can force the scammers to continue to innovate and develop into better scammers. Of all my transaction here, I was the one offering to pay by other means than pp(unaware of the rules and just not liking PayPal). And yes, it is people like you and maybe another dozen or 2 that make this site valuable/unique. That should hold some weight
 

Cell

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Are you putting vendors with actual business licenses and contact info/address in the same bucket as private sellers who disclose none of the same info?
 
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Daniel@R2R

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Regarding the question about vendors, we have not been ignoring it. This is actually a question I haven’t been asked before, so it is one I needed to verify before answering. As @Cell said, there is a big difference between a vendor selling things and a hobbyist individual. There is much more publicly accessible information regarding vendors, and by sheer need, a much larger sample size of potential feedback and reviewers since a vendor needs a much larger sample size of customers in order to maintain viability and survivability as a business. So to compare vendor sales to hobbyist sales is a bit of comparing apples to oranges.

So, here is the answer, payment methods like ApplePay are accepted in most stores now, and we do not restrict vendors from using such forms of payment. They have their own policies, procedures, and guarantees that they can and should be held to in any instance of a difficulty with any transaction. We do require that our sponsors uphold ethical standards in business transactions (we have removed sponsors who have been found to not be operating ethically). That said, it would be unethical for any business or person to require the use of Friends and Family methods of payment for something that is clearly a goods and services transaction. To date, no sponsor has ever been reported for such an issue.
 

littlefoxx

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Please feel free to discuss. Has this happened to you? Did you report it? Why or why not?

Our goal with this policy is the safety of our community. We do believe that most people are well-intentioned and would not knowingly intend to rip off another reefer. Unfortunately, in a large community and with so many active scammers in the world, we have seen the need for being clear about selling forum rules so that members can buy and sell with confidence. One of our moderators actually posted some excellent thoughts regarding buying and selling online sometime ago: Watch out before buying or selling
Yep, got scammed. First time using the marketplace and wont be using it again because of that :( didnt report it here cause I didnt know I could report it. Lost 350 bucks.
 

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This is the guy that scammed me!! Yet here he is claiming someone scammed him???? How is this user allowed back on forums?
 

Reefering1

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Regarding the question about vendors, we have not been ignoring it. This is actually a question I haven’t been asked before, so it is one I needed to verify before answering. As @Cell said, there is a big difference between a vendor selling things and a hobbyist individual. There is much more publicly accessible information regarding vendors, and by sheer need, a much larger sample size of potential feedback and reviewers since a vendor needs a much larger sample size of customers in order to maintain viability and survivability as a business. So to compare vendor sales to hobbyist sales is a bit of comparing apples to oranges.

So, here is the answer, payment methods like ApplePay are accepted in most stores now, and we do not restrict vendors from using such forms of payment. They have their own policies, procedures, and guarantees that they can and should be held to in any instance of a difficulty with any transaction. We do require that our sponsors uphold ethical standards in business transactions (we have removed sponsors who have been found to not be operating ethically). That said, it would be unethical for any business or person to require the use of Friends and Family methods of payment for something that is clearly a goods and services transaction. To date, no sponsor has ever been reported for such an issue.
Good answer! So can the average person become a vendor as a means to work around the PayPal rules? Is it just paying fees and getting approved or does it have to be a legitimately licensed business that r2r verifies/hold accountable?
 
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Daniel@R2R

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This is the guy that scammed me!! Yet here he is claiming someone scammed him???? How is this user allowed back on forums?
This user was actually recently banned for such issues. He is no longer a member at R2R.
 

HOW MUCH ARE YOU WILLING TO SPEND ON A SINGLE LIVE ADDITION TO YOUR REEF?

  • Less than $25

    Votes: 4 2.3%
  • $25-$100

    Votes: 41 23.8%
  • $100-$250

    Votes: 66 38.4%
  • $250-$500

    Votes: 33 19.2%
  • $500-$1000

    Votes: 17 9.9%
  • More than $1000

    Votes: 8 4.7%
  • Other (Please Explain!)

    Votes: 3 1.7%
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