How should I tackle small cyano outbreak?

[gbru316]

I've got cyano. How should I deal?


Background: 3 month old 40 breeder with 20L sump (55g total volume), ATO with RO/DI (0 TDS)

Filtration: 24/7 skimmer (w/ scrubber), large marinepure block, AF Life Bio Fil, 40 lbs (give or take) live rock, GAC reactor (6 TBSP rox), GFO reactor (as needed, currently offline), 1"-1.5" sand bed

Lighting: Neptune Sky ramping up to 70%, 12 hour photoperiod on continuous ramp to max at midday. Starting off blue, transitioning to AB+, then 3 hours of about 12k, back to blue.

Flow: 2x Tunze 6040, 1x Vortech MP10, 200 gph return pump

Supplements: AF Probiotic method (2 drops -NP Pro, Pro Bio S, ABEV), Neophos (1 mL/day), AF Life Source (20 mL/week), AF Component 1+, 2+, 3+

Control/Integration: Apex, Trident, 2x DOS, VDM (for Tunze 6040 control)

Food:
Daily: 1 mL AF liquid vege, AF liquid mysis, AF liquid artemia, AF plankton elixer, 0.3 mL AF tiny fish food pellets, AF fish-v
3x/week: 1 mL Oyster Feast, 1 mL AF Phytoplankton, 8 drops Brightwell Garlic Power
Weekly: 0.3 mL benepets, 0.3 mL AF pure food, 0.3 mL AF growth boost, 0.3 mL AF LPS food, 0.3 mL AF zoa food, 0.3 mL AF power food, 1 cube marine fusion

Maintenance schedule:
1. Weekly: 10% water change, clean skimmer cup, vacuum sump detritus, stir sand, replace GAC, blow detritus off rocks
2. Monthly: Replace 20% Life Bio Fil

Parameters:
Temp: 79.5
pH: 7.9-8.1
Salinity: 35 ppt
Nh3: 0
No2: 0
No3: 10.8
Po4: 0.028
Alk: 7.6-7.8
Ca: 520 (lowering to 420, dosing accident)
Mg: 1400

Livestock: 2x Ocellaris Clowns, 1x Cherub Pygmy Angel, 1x Scooter Blenny, 1x Yellow Watchman Goby, 1x Tiger pistol shrimp, 1x BTA, 1x cleaner shrimp, 10x blue leg hermits, 5x nassarius snails, 5x trochus snails, 1x emerald crab, various SPS (mostly monti, 2x acro - all growing), zoanthis (some of these waste away), LPS (growing)

 

[Andresnyc93]

Feed more phytoplankton daily preferably live and seed your tank with more pods. Don’t go the chemical route. This is completely normal for a new system and will go away on its own as long as you don’t overfeed too much.

 

[Tired]

Make sure your water source is pure, that no carbon filters or whatnot need changing. Check the TDS.

Do NOT lower phosphate, it's at about the minimum that most tanks should have. Your nitrates are higher than some people run, but should be fine, particularly with live rock.
(Real live rock, like from the ocean?)

Blow the cyano off any corals it infringes on, and leave it alone; it should sort itself out eventually as your tank matures.

 

[gbru316]

This is completely normal for a new system and will go away on its own as long as you don’t overfeed too much.

Blow the cyano off any corals it infringes on, and leave it alone; it should sort itself out eventually as your tank matures.

Real talk: I've been a knee-jerk reefer for most of my reefkeeping years. I'm trying to change. Intellectually, I know this is the correct route (which is why it's the first option in the poll). Just looking for some reassurance/validation/confirmation so I don't go back to my "omg what the heck dose and change all the things and BURN IT ALL DOWN."

Old habits die hard, ya know?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

You seem to be having success growing SPS, and I have mostly Lps and soft coral, so the following may not apply to your situation...
My first thought is that you are feeding and dosing a lot for such a new tank and the number of fish you have.
I also noticed that your return pump is only 200gph...? You may not be fully utilizing your sump filtration if the turnover is that low.
For a 3 month old tank, it's not unusual to get some cyano as the system goes through the algae cycle and nutrients continue to find a balance.
Finally, cyano likes low flow areas. Check to see if your in-tank flow (as opposed to the turnover from the tank to the sump) is not leaving any dead spots.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Edit: I missed the part about LPS growing, so maybe my advice is more relevant to your system than I thought

Also, did you intentionally include chemiclean in the poll twice??

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Edit: I missed the part about LPS growing, so maybe my advice is more relevant to your system than I thought

Also, did you intentionally include chemiclean in the poll twice??

 

[gbru316]

You seem to be having success growing SPS, and I have mostly Lps and soft coral, so the following may not apply to your situation...
My first thought is that you are feeding and dosing a lot for such a new tank and the number of fish you have.
I also noticed that your return pump is only 200gph...? You may not be fully utilizing your sump filtration if the turnover is that low.
For a 3 month old tank, it's not unusual to get some cyano as the system goes through the algae cycle and nutrients continue to find a balance.
Finally, cyano likes low flow areas. Check to see if your in-tank flow (as opposed to the turnover from the tank to the sump) is not leaving any dead spots.

Good luck and keep us posted!

1. I'm a firm believer in maximizing food. Feed as much as you're able to while still keeping No3 and Po4 under control. I believe I'm doing a reasonable job of this -- these numbers have been pretty stable for a month and a half now, with the exception of bottoming out Po4 (hence the Neophos).

2. I've got about 4x volume flow rate through the sump. Given no 'fuge and no mechanical filtration -- I wanted to keep it a bit lower to maximize dwell time to ensure skimmer can process more of the water for a given "pass" (skimmer flow rate is about 100 gph, so very loosely 50% of the water is skimmed). I also wanted to allow detritus to settle in the sump where it's more easily removed. That said, a DC return pump is on my list of future upgrades.

3. No dead spots -- I've got about 2500 gph in the display.

4. Dual chemiclean options was unintentional.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

1. I'm a firm believer in maximizing food. Feed as much as you're able to while still keeping No3 and Po4 under control. I believe I'm doing a reasonable job of this -- these numbers have been pretty stable for a month and a half now, with the exception of bottoming out Po4 (hence the Neophos).

2. I've got about 4x volume flow rate through the sump. Given no 'fuge and no mechanical filtration -- I wanted to keep it a bit lower to maximize dwell time to ensure skimmer can process more of the water for a given "pass" (skimmer flow rate is about 100 gph, so very loosely 50% of the water is skimmed). I also wanted to allow detritus to settle in the sump where it's more easily removed. That said, a DC return pump is on my list of future upgrades.

3. No dead spots -- I've got about 2500 gph in the display.

4. Dual chemiclean options was unintentional.

All good answers/points

I wish I had other suggestions for you but it seems like you're doing things the right way!

 

[Cory]

Thats not the typical cyanobacteria. Typical cyano is burgandy red and blows off in sheets. Almost feels like wet leather. That looks more like diatoms or amphidium dinoflagelets.

 

[gbru316]

Thats not the typical cyanobacteria. Typical cyano is burgandy red and blows off in sheets. Almost feels like wet leather. That looks more like diatoms or amphidium dinoflagelets.

I haven’t seen any air bubbles or snot. Though I have 40x-60x turnover with minimal “dead” spots and ORP has been rising so I suppose it’s possible that the bubbles just can’t form large enough to be visible due to the flow.

I’m more inclined to suspect diatoms than dino, though I’ve already gone through a diatom outbreak.

I did bottom out po4 a few weeks ago so that’d support dinos. I’ve also already had a diatom bloom a few months ago.

I guess I should purchase a microscope to get a better idea of what it is.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

I had a small patch on some of my rockwork. Took it out this morning, scrubbed it with a tooth brush, poured boiling hot water on the spot and back in the tank.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I've got cyano. How should I deal?


Background: 3 month old 40 breeder with 20L sump (55g total volume), ATO with RO/DI (0 TDS)

Filtration: 24/7 skimmer (w/ scrubber), large marinepure block, AF Life Bio Fil, 40 lbs (give or take) live rock, GAC reactor (6 TBSP rox), GFO reactor (as needed, currently offline), 1"-1.5" sand bed

Lighting: Neptune Sky ramping up to 70%, 12 hour photoperiod on continuous ramp to max at midday. Starting off blue, transitioning to AB+, then 3 hours of about 12k, back to blue.

Flow: 2x Tunze 6040, 1x Vortech MP10, 200 gph return pump

Supplements: AF Probiotic method (2 drops -NP Pro, Pro Bio S, ABEV), Neophos (1 mL/day), AF Life Source (20 mL/week), AF Component 1+, 2+, 3+

Control/Integration: Apex, Trident, 2x DOS, VDM (for Tunze 6040 control)

Food:
Daily: 1 mL AF liquid vege, AF liquid mysis, AF liquid artemia, AF plankton elixer, 0.3 mL AF tiny fish food pellets, AF fish-v
3x/week: 1 mL Oyster Feast, 1 mL AF Phytoplankton, 8 drops Brightwell Garlic Power
Weekly: 0.3 mL benepets, 0.3 mL AF pure food, 0.3 mL AF growth boost, 0.3 mL AF LPS food, 0.3 mL AF zoa food, 0.3 mL AF power food, 1 cube marine fusion

Maintenance schedule:
1. Weekly: 10% water change, clean skimmer cup, vacuum sump detritus, stir sand, replace GAC, blow detritus off rocks
2. Monthly: Replace 20% Life Bio Fil

Parameters:
Temp: 79.5
pH: 7.9-8.1
Salinity: 35 ppt
Nh3: 0
No2: 0
No3: 10.8
Po4: 0.028
Alk: 7.6-7.8
Ca: 520 (lowering to 420, dosing accident)
Mg: 1400

Livestock: 2x Ocellaris Clowns, 1x Cherub Pygmy Angel, 1x Scooter Blenny, 1x Yellow Watchman Goby, 1x Tiger pistol shrimp, 1x BTA, 1x cleaner shrimp, 10x blue leg hermits, 5x nassarius snails, 5x trochus snails, 1x emerald crab, various SPS (mostly monti, 2x acro - all growing), zoanthis (some of these waste away), LPS (growing)

First recourse is to determine cause.
Some of the most common causes include:
- Protein skimmer which fills water with tiny air bubbles. As bubbles form from the reaction chamber, dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to a collection cup, where it rests as skimmate. When the protein skimmer does not output the best efficiency or you do not have the suitable protein skimmer to cover the tank, the air bubbles created by the skimmer might be insufficient. And this insufficiency of air bubbles can trigger the cyano to thrive.
- Overstocking / overfeeding, your aquarium with nutrients is often the culprit of a cyano bloom
- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured which acts like a breeding ground for red slime algae
- If you don’t change your water with enough frequency, you’ll soon have a brightly colored red slime algae bloom. Regular water changes dilute nutrients that feed cyanobacteria and keeps your tank beautifully clear
- Using a water source with nitrates or phosphates is like rolling out the welcome mat for cyano. Tap water is an example
- Inadequate water flow, or movement, is a leading cause of cyano blooms. Slow moving water combined with excess dissolved nutrients is a recipe for pervasive red slime algae development

I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 5-7 days. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure Elite which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check.

After the week, add a few snails such as cerith, margarita, astrea and nassarius plus 6-8 blue leg hermits to take control.

 

[Timfish]

Manual removal only. You can siphon out the top layer of sand along with the cyano and soak it in H2O2 rinse well in freshwater and let dry before returning to your system. For long term algae control I use shortspine urchins, sally lightfoot crabs and thin strip hermits. Here's a thread I did on the local forum:

Hair Algae, a second case study

Nuisance algae in reef systems is pretty much a ubiquitous problem, and one that is a common source of frustration for reef aquarists. It is also one I've learned to view the problem very differently than what is generally portrayed and it just takes a few rather basic steps, and patience. (This ...

www.austinreefclub.com

 

[homegrowncichlid]

A 3 day black out period will wipe out 99% of those planktonic algae, dinoflaggelate,, Cyano and diatoms. To prevent their return I used Dr Tim, waste away and refresh combo, for dinoflaggelate control. Took me 3 tries to get the total black out right. Dr Tim's provides detailed dosing instructions which are pretty effective, provided you don't recomtaminate your system with cyst covered nets or other dried equipment, which will reintroducing the organism back. Other tools like Red slime remover will also work on cyano, though they do not provide biological competition when the lights turn back on. Currently I do a total black out every 2 months or so just to clean everything up. I don't use any bacterial additives during these routine processes, unless the pest algae returns which may be with new fish or frag.

 

[gbru316]

So.

1. I purchased this scope on Amazon (and a pack of slides and covers), arriving tomorrow. Should be more than adequate to determine what's going on. Probably a bit overkill, honestly. But I'm always fascinated with gaining insight into small details otherwise hard/impossible to detect with our eyes. See also - macrophotography.

2. Just installed a 24w green machine UV temporarily, in the display. In my 25 years, I've never ran UV on a tank. Depending on outcome and impact to overall tank health, I might look into upgrading with a more permanent unit under the stand, with a controllable DC pump so I can tailor for desired use.

3. Bought a pack of chemiclean, just to have on standby.

If this turns out to be dinos, I'll figure out what type using @taricha's guide and follow the eradication guide written by @ScottB.

 

[gbru316]

Protein skimmer which fills water with tiny air bubbles. As bubbles form from the reaction chamber, dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to a collection cup, where it rests as skimmate. When the protein skimmer does not output the best efficiency or you do not have the suitable protein skimmer to cover the tank, the air bubbles created by the skimmer might be insufficient. And this insufficiency of air bubbles can trigger the cyano to thrive.

Skimmer is operating well, no microbubbles finding their way into the tank.

- Overstocking / overfeeding, your aquarium with nutrients is often the culprit of a cyano bloom

No3/Po4 within acceptable range (10, 0.03)

- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured which acts like a breeding ground for red slime algae

LR is predominantly from LFS, covered in paper during travel.

- If you don’t change your water with enough frequency, you’ll soon have a brightly colored red slime algae bloom. Regular water changes dilute nutrients that feed cyanobacteria and keeps your tank beautifully clear

See aforementioned numbers.

- Using a water source with nitrates or phosphates is like rolling out the welcome mat for cyano. Tap water is an example

RO/DI with 0 TDS.

- Inadequate water flow, or movement, is a leading cause of cyano blooms. Slow moving water combined with excess dissolved nutrients is a recipe for pervasive red slime algae development

40-60x turnover in display depending on time. Minimal dead spots. Still grows in high water flow.

I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 5-7 days.

Turning off entirely isn't an option, but I can certainly shift to a more blue spectrum. Will consider once microscope analysis is complete.

Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons.

I dose AF Pro Bio S daily

Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure Elite which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check.

No issues in maintaining No3/Po4 levels. Peroxide is an option, will explore further once I can analyze under microscope.

After the week, add a few snails such as cerith, margarita, astrea and nassarius plus 6-8 blue leg hermits to take control.

Already have a handful of blue legs, some nassarius, and some trochus. Margarita's are an option, if I can find true margarita snails. But flipping over astreas is a PITA so I've been trying to avoid them. I've been searching for ceriths for a little while now, LFS here don't stock them because they aren't super popular here for some reason. Might need to drive to Orlando to pick some up.

 

[FIN&BONEZ]

I just used sunnyx's recipe for cyano removal, wish I would have taken before and after pics, cyano gone and now cleaning the glass once a week if that. I'll probably make a habit out of it.

 

[gbru316]

Thats not the typical cyanobacteria. Typical cyano is burgandy red and blows off in sheets. Almost feels like wet leather. That looks more like diatoms or amphidium dinoflagelets.

unfortunately, you were right. It’s dinos.

had enough time to prepare a slide and take a quick glance, need to analyze further once the kids are in bed.

 

[Cory]

unfortunately, you were right. It’s dinos.

had enough time to prepare a slide and take a quick glance, need to analyze further once the kids are in bed.

Have you noticed any copepods or amphipods in your tank? According to brs a video they posted amphipods (or copepods?) ate them. Might want to give it try or get some live rock to bring them in.

 

[gbru316]

Have you noticed any copepods or amphipods in your tank? According to brs a video they posted amphipods (or copepods?) ate them. Might want to give it try or get some live rock to bring them in.

I have some tisbe pods, but I’ve also got a scooter blenny.


coincidentally, I listened to the podcast version of that video earlier this weekend, and placed an order for 4 jars of eco pods from algae barn. Figured it’d be a good idea regardless of what I’m dealing with.

should take the scooter blenny a little while to go through 28k+ pods, hopefully they can outpace it’s appetite.