How to Quarantine Coral and Inverts

[ReefBeta]

If that’s the case, look into using a sw acclimated black molly as a ‘canary’. Put it in the coral QT tank at the same time as you add a bunch of corals- if it doesn’t get sick within 3 weeks, there were no ich or velvet present and you are good to go into display tank.

However-?If the molly gets sick- you need 76 days QT in the corals, plus you get to treat a sick molly.

Just an idea. I’m actually contemplating this for a batch of corals. I want to fill my display fast, but don’t want to risk $$ on corals only for them to decline in a 20long over 76 days. Of the 10 I’ve bought to far, 2 are KIA. But I think they were damaged in shipping

How's that 3 weeks canery work? As my understanding, the 76 days is to account for the longest tomite stage of some species, which is 72 days. So if the coral get tomites of that type on the day it shipped, the fish won't get sick till the 72th days since the coral was put in the tank, right?

 

[User]

How's that 3 weeks canery work? As my understanding, the 76 days is to account for the longest tomite stage of some species, which is 72 days. So if the coral get tomites of that type on the day it shipped, the fish won't get sick till the 72th days since the coral was put in the tank, right?

Even IF a 72 day tomite is present, not all of them are going to be 72 day tomites- they’ll hatch at random intervals for a maximum of 72 days

If it has a 72 day tomite on it, it has a 71 day, a 70 day...a 21 day ...a 4 day... etc

The 3 weeks is to give the tomites a chance to ‘hatch’ then attach to the fish, then replicate enough to see.

 

[ReefBeta]

Even IF a 72 day tomite is present, not all of them are going to be 72 day tomites- they’ll hatch at random intervals for a maximum of 72 days

If it has a 72 day tomite on it, it has a 71 day, a 70 day...a 21 day ...a 4 day... etc

The 3 weeks is to give the tomites a chance to ‘hatch’ then attach to the fish, then replicate enough to see.

I thought the different hatch days are from different strains, not the same strain have hatch time from 4 days all the way to 72 days. I can't find the original paper now so I'm not totally sure.

 

[User]

I thought the different hatch days are from different strains, not the same strain have hatch time from 4 days all the way to 72 days. I can't find the original paper now so I'm not totally sure.

Yeah, that would make sense. I don’t think all tomonts from the same trophont hatch at the same time though, regardless. I’ll need to think about this then get in touch with humblefish or someone. I’ve seen that canary method suggested elsewhere but now I think maybe that strain introduces a flaw in the thinking

It’s possible that’s since infection isn’t a single event and substrate will contain tomonts from all time periods stretching back to the initial inoculation, you’ll have free swimmers hatching from them pretty much every day after that initial ‘incubation’ period. So if coral got infected with a 72 hour strain 68 days ago- you’ll get hatching in 4 days and it’ll become evident on the fish. If, like you said, your coral frag got hit 3 days ago, you are SOL with the method and either incorrectly assume a false negative then infect your tank, or you wait it out and see.

Well, if that’s true, that’s kinda a bummer

 

[#1Fellowreefer]

New to this hobby and I have seen and researched and learned from some PRO like @mrsaltwatertank @FishOfHex @melevsreef @tidalgardens how important and significant it is to QT any fish, coals and even inverts. Can’t stress enough about this and I have done this even though my clowns are coming from captive breading but I still have them all in the to make sure they eat right and are healthy. So are they are doing well. Once I have introduced these guys and few other fish to my DT I will clean up this QT and start it all over again for the corals. Not to mention close use the Safety Stop even before adding them to the QT and once again before introducing them to the DT.

 

[User]

How's that 3 weeks canery work? As my understanding, the 76 days is to account for the longest tomite stage of some species, which is 72 days. So if the coral get tomites of that type on the day it shipped, the fish won't get sick till the 72th days since the coral was put in the tank, right?

Even IF a 72 day tomite is present, not all of them are going to be 72 day tomites- they’ll hatch at random intervals for a maximum of 72 days

If it has a 72 day tomite on it, it has a 71 day, a 70 day...a 21 day ...a 4 day... etc

The 3 weeks is to give the tomites a chance to ‘hatch’ then attach to the fish, then replicate enough to see.

I thought the different hatch days are from different strains, not the same strain have hatch time from 4 days all the way to 72 days. I can't find the original paper now so I'm not totally sure.

Yeah, that would make sense. I don’t think all tomonts from the same trophont hatch at the same time though, regardless. I’ll need to think about this then get in touch with humblefish or someone. I’ve seen that canary method suggested elsewhere but now I think maybe that strain introduces a flaw in the thinking

It’s possible that’s since infection isn’t a single event and substrate will contain tomonts from all time periods stretching back to the initial inoculation, you’ll have free swimmers hatching from them pretty much every day after that initial ‘incubation’ period. So if coral got infected with a 72 hour strain 68 days ago- you’ll get hatching in 4 days and it’ll become evident on the fish. If, like you said, your coral frag got hit 3 days ago, you are SOL with the method and either incorrectly assume a false negative then infect your tank, or you wait it out and see.

Well, if that’s true, that’s kinda a bummer

@Humblefish - any chance we can have clarification on the 'coral at / molly canary' method ? This seems like a more workable method than 76 days for all corals. We seem to be getting our thoughts muddled with regards to tomont hatching schedule in the various strains. E.g. Do ALL tomonts from the 72 day strain take 72 days to hatch or is it a continuum? Thanks

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish - any chance we can have clarification on the 'coral at / molly canary' method ? This seems like a more workable method than 76 days for all corals. We seem to be getting our thoughts muddled with regards to tomont hatching schedule in the various strains. E.g. Do ALL tomonts from the 72 day strain take 72 days to hatch or is it a continuum? Thanks

In theory it should work. If you house black mollies in your frag tank they should show symptoms anytime free swimmers get released into the water by a tomont on a coral/invert. The downside is this would restart the fallow period anytime a molly "hit" positive and only after all mollies had been removed from the tank.

Even during the 72 day experiment, theront excystment began after only 3 days, and in most studies it peaks at 6 ± 2 days. However, I would personally observe the black mollies for a full month just to be sure.

 

[User]

In theory it should work. If you house black mollies in your frag tank they should show symptoms anytime free swimmers get released into the water by a tomont on a coral/invert. The downside is this would restart the fallow period anytime a molly "hit" positive and only after all mollies had been removed from the tank.

Even during the 72 day experiment, theront excystment began after only 3 days, and in most studies it peaks at 6 ± 2 days. However, I would personally observe the black mollies for a full month just to be sure.

Thanks for the clarification. So, the 72 day strain has tomonts that hatch out at day +3 to 72, peaking between days 4-8.

I was discussing with another user if the '72 day strain' produced tomonts that only excysted at 72 days, or if it was a continuum. Good to hear your response.

Thanks!

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks for the clarification. So, the 72 day strain has tomonts that hatch out at day +3 to 72, peaking between days 4-8.

I was discussing with another user if the '72 day strain' produced tomonts that only excysted at 72 days, or if it was a continuum. Good to hear your response.

Thanks!

Yes, theront excystment is very asynchronous. If it is still occurring after 30 days (from the same group of tomonts), it slows to a trickle. Unfortunately, all it takes is for one theront to find a (fish) host to continue the lifecycle. This is why many running a UV (or similar) think they've beaten Ich/velvet, because only a few theronts survive long enough to find a host before being siphoned out of the water column. Oftentimes they get a harsh dose of reality 2-3 weeks after the UV is switched off.

 

[User]

Thanks for the clarification. So, the 72 day strain has tomonts that hatch out at day +3 to 72, peaking between days 4-8.

I was discussing with another user if the '72 day strain' produced tomonts that only excysted at 72 days, or if it was a continuum. Good to hear your response.

Thanks!

@zsxking check this out

 

[User]

Yes, theront excystment is very asynchronous. If it is still occurring after 30 days (from the same group of tomonts), it slows to a trickle. Unfortunately, all it takes is for one theront to find a (fish) host to continue the lifecycle. This is why many running a UV (or similar) think they've beaten Ich/velvet, because only a few theronts survive long enough to find a host before being siphoned out of the water column. Oftentimes they get a harsh dose of reality 2-3 weeks after the UV is switched off.

So, why then do you think, is the 72 day strain called a strain if it's so asynchronous?

Calling it a strain kinda makes it sound like it's a distinct organism that 'only' hatches at 72 days.

Thanks so much for the information - i plan to use a number of canary Mollies in my upcoming rounds of coral Qt- aim is to get them into the much better lit and parameter stable display sooner than I've currently been doing . 30days >>>> 76days, for sure

 

[Humblefish]

So, why then do you think, is the 72 day strain called a strain if it's so asynchronous?

Calling it a strain kinda makes it sound like it's a distinct organism that 'only' hatches at 72 days.

The study was ambiguous and left many questions unanswered. In case you haven't seen it, here is my email exchange with Dr. Colorni who co-authored the study: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/marine-ich-and-temperature.232825/page-2#post-3367199

Was the prolonged excystment period due to a specific strain? Was it the colder water (68F) used during the experiment? Was it the lack of bacteria, which Dr. Colorni suggested will "gnaw" on parasite tomonts and eventually damage them? The latter fascinates me because it could explain why Paul and others with mature aquariums seem so disease resistant. More/greater numbers of biodiversity + many different strains of bacteria & microfauna = more natural predators for parasite tomonts??

 

[SeeFu]

There's something I never understood about QTing corals compared to fish. w/ fish you always have copper or some medication in the water that's continuing to take care of pest. With corals you don'ot have that. so why can't you have some egg on the coral which the dip doesn't kill. then between dips, the egg hatches and whatever pest is hatched relays fresh eggs or lays those eggs off of the coral. Am I missing something here w/ QTing corals?

 

[Big G]

Great question. The parasite has to "feed" upon the fish before dropping off to "encyst" on a rock, shell, or other hard surface. So if you deny the "feeding" by going fallow, it breaks the cycle.

 

[SeeFu]

how many days should be in between each coral dip?

 

[Big G]

how many days should be in between each coral dip?

Depends on the condition of the corals and if you have identified pests. I QT my corals for 72 days. Dip incoming and then every 3-4 weeks as needed.

 

[SeeFu]

So something like aefw also needs a fish to continue to reproduce?

 

[MamaP]

This is such an informative thread! Here's a question I have. Since we typically keep bare bottom QTs, how would you QT something like a Nassarius snail that typically lives in substate? Would they survive on flakes or pellets for 45+ days with no sand?

 

[#1Fellowreefer]

This is such an informative thread! Here's a question I have. Since we typically keep bare bottom QTs, how would you QT something like a Nassarius snail that typically lives in substate? Would they survive on flakes or pellets for 45+ days with no sand?

They will be fine without substrate and yes they will eat the pellets while in QT as mine were in QT for almost 60 days and now living happily in the DT for almost 4 months and 13 days

 

[MamaP]

They will be fine without substrate and yes they will eat the pellets while in QT as mine were in QT for almost 60 days and now living happily in the DT for almost 4 months and 13 days

Awesome! Thanks!