How to source Chromium, Fluorine, and Selenium

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

And last question gents....potassium iodide.....would you recommend this salt to supply iodine to the aquarium?

It is a good material for that purpose, yes.

 

[Lousybreed]

Thanks guys! I appreciate all the help. Side note, chromium is in every once a day vitamin on the market. So I agree that the handling of the raw material must require the correct PPE and ventilation, but if it’s in a vitamin it must be safe enough to consume!!! And of course the concentration is a big deal too.

 

[Lousybreed]

So where I am going with this is I will probably just buy some chromium vitamin. Spring valley’s contains 800mcg for each pill just chop that up and see if it will dissolve. Should work.

 

[flampton]

Thanks guys! I appreciate all the help. Side note, chromium is in every once a day vitamin on the market. So I agree that the handling of the raw material must require the correct PPE and ventilation, but if it’s in a vitamin it must be safe enough to consume!!! And of course the concentration is a big deal too.

I think that you might not be understanding the discussion. So am very glad you did not purchase the hexavalent chromium.

Now yes we recommended other trivalent salts. Trivalent chromium salts are the types of chromium in supplements. I personally wouldnt use a pill supplement because of fillers but if you do I'd use the polynicotinate version. Not sure on the effects of the other common supplement anion, picolinic acid, on marine life.

 

[Lousybreed]

I understand fully thus my move to much safer options. I hadn’t looked into the SDS for any chromium options when I posted. I fully understand the risks associated with trace elements and mixing them. I do appreciate the heads up and from my research into most of what I am using for the trace element mix, basic ppe and proper ventilation will be required....plus proper lab procedure surrounding removal of gloves, proper tools to extract the chemicals from the container. I am a chemical engineer btw.

 

[Lousybreed]

The problem with the supplement route From chromium is the terrible solubility in water. Seems like you actually couldn’t overdose due how insoluble it is.
I wouldn’t be worried about what else is in the pill. They list all the ingredients. Plus you are talking about several milligrams of a pillfor a 4 week batch of trace elements.

 

[Lousybreed]

@Randy Holmes-Farley happy new year!

Ok I mixed my first batch of DIY trace elements and I have some mixed results. I followed the mix that Tropic Marin uses, meaning I followed what elements they used in their mixes. (Tropic Marin A and K).

My mix of Boric Acid (1.13 grams), ferric chloride (135mg), rubidium chloride (9mg), barium chloride (65mg), cobalt chloride (98 mg), copper sulfate (23.1mg), Manganese Sulfate (1.6 grams), Nickel Chloride (around 3mg), Strontium Chloride (1.2 grams), and Zinc Sulfate (2.8 grams) resulted in something precipitated out. The precipitated crystals are so small they stay in suspension for the most part. I originally mixed all the components in 250ml beaker that was filled to about 250ml and I used a stir bar. This is where I noticed the precipitation event, in the 250ml beaker. I looked up the solubility of Strontium Sulfate and it is really poor. I don't understand the mechanics between a cocktail of stuff like this but I am assuming the use of some sulfates could be problematic? Any advice would be appreciated!

Would it be a better idea to segregate based on sulfate vs chloride...I also wonder if Boric Acid is the problem?

 

[Lasse]

And last question gents....potassium iodide.....would you recommend this salt to supply iodine to the aquarium?

It is a good material for that purpose, yes.

If you use potassium salts - be aware of that potassium can be toxic for fish in higher concentrations (above 550 mg/L at least after my own experiences). I have had two occasions with suspected mass death caused by potassium in concentrations above 550 mg/L - concentrations that have been in the aquarium for a prolonged period (not LC50/xx hours acute toxicity) I have hears about 1 more events like the two I have had. However - the corals was unaffected - in my cases they have never been as good as they was at these events and in that aquarium.

It is difficult to get a picture over the acute toxicity of K in the scientific literature because there is a lot of K compounds where the counterpart is at least as toxic as pure K.

However - I am very careful with K compounds - I have switched from KNO3 into NaNO3 for adding NO3 into my aquarium because I saw a rising trend of K in my aquarium.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lousybreed]

If you use potassium salts - be aware of that potassium can be toxic for fish in higher concentrations (above 550 mg/L at least after my own experiences). I have had two occasions with suspected mass death caused by potassium in concentrations above 550 mg/L - concentrations that have been in the aquarium for a prolonged period (not LC50/xx hours acute toxicity) I have hears about 1 more events like the two I have had. However - the corals was unaffected - in my cases they have never been as good as they was at these events and in that aquarium.

It is difficult to get a picture over the acute toxicity of K in the scientific literature because there is a lot of K compounds where the counterpart is at least as toxic as pure K.

However - I am very careful with K compounds - I have switched from KNO3 into NaNO3 for adding NO3 into my aquarium because I saw a rising trend of K in my aquarium.

Sincerely Lasse

Very good to know about potassium....I do dose KNO3.....My last ICP I was around 400.....but I will keep an eye on it!

 

[Lasse]

Very good to know about potassium....I do dose KNO3.....My last ICP I was around 400.....but I will keep an eye on it!

Yes do that - I can´t say that it is scientific proven that I´m right but my experiences make me to be careful with the K concentrations. I´m around 430 mg/L in K - that make me to change to NaNO3 instead. I use the same recipe (40 g diluted up to 500 g with RO water) it is not the exact thing but it is close enough for me (1 ml of this solution rise 100 l with 0.5 mg/L - around ) My experiences is also that if you have a fast growing Chaeto refugium - K is consumed. It was what happens between 2016 and 2018 in my aquarium. I did not dose any KNO3 at that time. Start in the spring of 2018 with KNO3 but use NaNO3 when K koncentrations rise

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lousybreed]

I have prepped up the trace elements into three solution and I have fixed all the precipitation events that were occuring. I sent out my ICP today. I looked back at my Potassium levels, @Lasse they were at only 370.....my target is 425 for until I get close to 420sih, I will keep dosing KNO3 but I will begin a conversion over to NaNO3. I know my tank uses potassium so I am assuming I will end up finding a balanced blend of the nitrates eventually.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have prepped up the trace elements into three solution and I have fixed all the precipitation events that were occuring. I sent out my ICP today. I looked back at my Potassium levels, @Lasse they were at only 370.....my target is 425 for until I get close to 420sih, I will keep dosing KNO3 but I will begin a conversion over to NaNO3. I know my tank uses potassium so I am assuming I will end up finding a balanced blend of the nitrates eventually.

Why are you targeting potassium levels above natural levels?

 

[stenopus]

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Mr Holmes-Farley, how to make solution of fluoride so i am able to raise with 10ml of solution to rasie fluoride on 100 liters of seawater by 0,1 ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Mr Holmes-Farley, how to make solution of fluoride so i am able to raise with 10ml of solution to rasie fluoride on 100 liters of seawater by 0,1 ?

The diy dosing archive linked at the top of the Chem page gives recipes;

Post your DIY additives here!

I would not worry about a little silica. It doesn't dissolve super readily, and some dissolved silicate is fine (I dosed it regularly).

www.reef2reef.com

 

[stenopus]

The diy dosing archive linked at the top of the Chem page gives recipes;

Post your DIY additives here!

I would not worry about a little silica. It doesn't dissolve super readily, and some dissolved silicate is fine (I dosed it regularly).

www.reef2reef.com

I am little bit stupid for chemistry, if you can advice me, so If you dissolve 10 grams in 1 L, then it is 10 mg/mL NaF and it takes 22 mL of that solution to boost 100 L by 1 mg/L F.


10 ml of Single Elements Fluoride increase the fluoride content in 100 l of aquarium water by 0.1 mg/l.


how much NaF in grams i need in 1 liter to achieve this? thank you

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am little bit stupid for chemistry, if you can advice me, so If you dissolve 10 grams in 1 L, then it is 10 mg/mL NaF and it takes 22 mL of that solution to boost 100 L by 1 mg/L F.


10 ml of Single Elements Fluoride increase the fluoride content in 100 l of aquarium water by 0.1 mg/l.


how much NaF in grams i need in 1 liter to achieve this? thank you

I do not see why you need to match any other product, but the recipe I gave is much stronger.

it takes 22 mL to boost 100 L by 1 ppm.

Yours takes 100 mL to boost 100 L by 1 ppm.

So the solution I posted is 100/22 x stronger, or 4.5 times stronger.

If you have a strong need to match potency, then instead of

"If you dissolve 10 grams in 1 L, then it is 10 mg/mL NaF and it takes 22 mL of that solution to boost 100 L by 1 mg/L F."

you can use

"If you dissolve 2.2 grams in 1 L, then it is 2.2 mg/mL NaF and it takes 100 mL of that solution to boost 100 L by 1 mg/L F.”

 

[stenopus]

Thank you very much Randy, any idea how to make Manganese solution?

 

[paintman]

Why not just buy the trace elements you want from reef moonshiners?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Why not just buy the trace elements you want from reef moonshiners?

Cheaper?
Known form and purity?
Not available everywhere?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you very much Randy, any idea how to make Manganese solution?

It’s in the diy chemistry thread.