Rmckoy
7500 Club Member
Stumped me why or how a post about reefs in classrooms is all of a sudden being targeted
And where using antibiotics comes into that post .
and this is why I posted a link to the other post regarding the same
Human safety issues aren't rare-discuss classroom reefs, home reef-caused infections in humans. this is an untold side of home reef tanking
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And where using antibiotics comes into that post .
and this is why I posted a link to the other post regarding the same
MoshJosh
2500 Club Member
I agree and disagree, guess it depends on the classroom/grade level. My fear is that the inhabitants would end up receiving poor care or could come to intentional harm. Do I think most students are going to try to feed the tank a ham sandwich. . . no. . . but enough kids over enough time and a sandwich is definitely going into the tank. . .
only kind of joking. . .
hexcolor reef
Valuable Member
One of the first things I’ve seen before jumping in the hobby was reefers wearing long gloves going into their tank. Never heard any YouTubers mention the reason except not touch corals due to the stings but none the less everyone put chemicals into the ranks without knowing any other biological activity that’s going on when mixing products.Team
we take for granted the inside-angle knowledge of palytoxin, Vibrio infections, mycobacterium infections, unknown potential viral transfers and basic allergic inflammation reactions from being around reef tanks. That's what seasoned forum typers come to learn over the years
But I now see a standout risk where even experienced reef keepers may not know about the potential danger in vermitid pokes, or even handling of substrates where microtears or scrapes still cause a marked inflammation response, not just an annoyance
This information is NOT part of the initial reads in classroom reef setups. Student interactions in the reef tanks are limited and controlled by the teacher I'm aware, but not to the degree I see bacterial/inflammation/respiratory transfer issues mentioned in classroom builds over the years.
I have recently (four days ago issue still pending no updates) in online in live chats watched a reef tanker develop such a pronounced arm and leg infection from cleaning out a reef tank that for them not to have provided updates in our thread in four days is deeply seriously concerning and the reason for this thread.
I'm stating the person's reaction was so bad, its not a non-issue in reefing its a dedicated study we need especially for classroom setting reefs. I'm sure the biology teachers are in control of the settings, they're not being haphazard, so this is merely a discussion on the inherent but often unspoken risks in our hobby.
nobody who owns fanged and venom-able herps needs retraining on their elective risks, but reef tankers do. My child grew up around reefs but we at least used gloves. I did not consider breathing issues a risk, I drew the line at direct physical handling so we at least used gloves. Past that I was open to risks associated in the system we mainly looked at it; not a lot of deep inhaling off the top water and thankfully that worked out ok for my family.
If anyone has friends that don't know about nuances of reef tank safety: beyond palytoxin which was all the headlines in the last four years, let them know about simple handling of live rock can transmit very dangerous infections. its not rare, I have one friend on this site who has already posted three times about having to go into the dr for minor rock pokes and boil development, they're apparently more sensitive than normal.
*There are still palythoid owners posting who do not know about palytoxin risk
others report zero reaction to anything, including paly handling, that's kind of the go-to starting point we all start with till given a reason not to. Well I'm here to relay its something to watch out for, off the bat, linked with cycle training
among the things we teach new aquarists past ammonia control: fish disease preps and now human disease preps.
when people post pics of what their arm infections look like, it'll sink in. go search some recent ones out
Bristleworm Sting and Chronic Joint Pain?
Hey all. A month or two ago I was clearing some hair algae out of my tank. I was being lazy and not using gloves, and I guess at some point I rested a finger against a bristleworm. Got a good 20+ bristles right into the joint of my ring finger. Without thinking, I just sort of wiped them off...www.reef2reef.com
but it’s easy to glove up.
c_healy
Valuable Member
I dunno about that. I’ve had so many scrapes and cuts from moving stuff around in my tanks and I’ve never had any of them get infected.
but I’m also the kid who drank from the garden hose and played in the mud all the time lol
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In first grade classes - they have duck (eggs to hatch) - have raised trout from eggs, there is no reason not to have a reef tank. That said - If I was a smart teacher - I would put an anemone with 2 clowns in a tank - as compared to a lion fish and multiple zoas. Just my opinion
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I drank from the garden hose as well. I obviousily was not wearing gloves. The problem with these (any) infections is that they can occur with otherwise healthy people. Story - 34 year old woman - scratched herself on a thorn on the street - was dead within 24 hours. Story - 40 year old man - cut his foot on the beach. 24 hours later - sepsis, dialysis, amputations of hands and feet. The bottom line - these things are exceedingly rare - if you're a victim - or have seen a victim - you will be more careful - which I (Think) the message is.
OP
OP
Coach V
If you let students handle this stuff without a waiver, seeing what you see on this thread, can we call that turning a blind eye on purpose or by accident?
@Coach v
Curious if you find these ailments a pure non issue, for the other people's children you're caring for? Get a signed waiver if you do let's dig in the reef rock day
If you do elementary kids let them look, don't touch or that's too paranoid for you I'm thinking?
If you let students handle this stuff without a waiver, seeing what you see on this thread, can we call that turning a blind eye on purpose or by accident?
@Coach v
Curious if you find these ailments a pure non issue, for the other people's children you're caring for? Get a signed waiver if you do let's dig in the reef rock day
If you do elementary kids let them look, don't touch or that's too paranoid for you I'm thinking?
OP
OP
Coach
You'll be withholding this thread from the reading eyes of any parent who's kids are in your class holding reef materials I'll bet a solid on that
Show this to them, then offer a waiver, let us know your informed consent acceptance rate
You'll be withholding this thread from the reading eyes of any parent who's kids are in your class holding reef materials I'll bet a solid on that
Show this to them, then offer a waiver, let us know your informed consent acceptance rate
Coach v
Active Member
I think you need to grow up a bit honestly. I no longer teach 2nd grade, but Jr/Sr high school shop. I have had reef tanks in both and would not have a waiver. I guess when you allow high school boys to use a table saw and lead a 4-H rifle group with twenty 9-year old kids, a reef tank is not all that scary.
OP
OP
glad my kid isn't in your class. You didn't bring anything constructive to the thread from your very first post is why, I wouldn't want that as a basic go to model.
OP
OP
This was a basic health warning thread, your first and following posts were not on topic at all but just jeering. That's more like what students do, wish you'd rethought posting initially. If they're not handling substrates it's no big deal. A reef sitting there isn't an issue, that would have been a friendly + constructive first post
I don't recall ever posting in any thread you wrote in a jeering manner as well.
I don't recall ever posting in any thread you wrote in a jeering manner as well.
I want long gloves because my clown has attacked me before. I usually don’t stick my arms in but sometimes it’s necessary…. If I have to now I put a net in the water to protect my arm. My clownfish doesn’t mess with me if I got a net…!
Rmckoy
7500 Club Member
Again . Never cease to amaze me …..
I see coach opinions as not to coddle society children and let them grow up the exact same and given the same opportunities we had and taught real life skills .
I don’t see the need for a waiver to be signed to have a reef tank In a class room when as you said. Every class was exported to salmonella . One is no better than the other .
Rmckoy
7500 Club Member
I was scraping the glassI want long gloves because my clown has attacked me before. I usually don’t stick my arms in but sometimes it’s necessary…. If I have to now I put a net in the water to protect my arm. My clownfish doesn’t mess with me if I got a net…!
Last night and the one a hole clown kept biting at my arm .
I grabbed the net thinking it would not come around .
I was able to sit the net in the water and it swam right into the net .
Placed “her” in the other end while I finished
I set up and maintained a 75 gallon reef in the biology classroom of a nearby high school.
The teacher let me make a little presentation about the tank and it's equipment, a long with the organisms in the tank.
I made sure to tell them that the "mushrooms" ( zoas and palys ) were deadly poisonous, and they shouldn't try to eat them. It irked me that I'd even have to feel the need to do so, but better safe than sorry.
I put the fear of Neptune in them, too. I might have traumatized a few of them. Electricity, toxins, venoms, mycobacterium, vibrio...I did what I could to dissuade them from ever putting their hands in THAT tank. LOL!!
I did teach a couple of them how to do routine and emergency actions in case the tank had problems.
The teacher let me make a little presentation about the tank and it's equipment, a long with the organisms in the tank.
I made sure to tell them that the "mushrooms" ( zoas and palys ) were deadly poisonous, and they shouldn't try to eat them. It irked me that I'd even have to feel the need to do so, but better safe than sorry.
I put the fear of Neptune in them, too. I might have traumatized a few of them. Electricity, toxins, venoms, mycobacterium, vibrio...I did what I could to dissuade them from ever putting their hands in THAT tank. LOL!!
I did teach a couple of them how to do routine and emergency actions in case the tank had problems.
Coach v
Active Member
Before you tagged me, I had one response in this thread and that was kindly asking that you not propose even more regulations for classrooms. I have been in the classroom for 20 years now, and trust me we do not need regulations regarding reef tanks in the classroom.
Rmckoy
7500 Club Member
There are many people that have posted on here looking for advise and asking who to talk to regarding permission , funding and education
And sadly . I agree if someone were to poke around too much regulations topics might be brought into light to be addressed .
but …… I also agree with having a reef in the corner of a room os far more than just that
Those involved need to be informed of the possible risks associated .
same as when you’re teaching a kid to use the table saw .
do you run through the risks , do and don’t do .
Or just say cut this on that saw ?
Coach v
Active Member
A table saw is equipment that are responsible for thousands of amputations per year. How many serious injuries are there from reef aquariums? I really have no clue, but I am guessing it is a low number. I mean, last year we sent a 7th grader to the ER for eating the insides of a sharpe, kids do the craziest things.
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