Hydros Control 2 , Control 4 and accessories question and answer thread.

[Fishyj]

It is 180. I did that last night.

 

[shred5]

Looking for some help. My control 2 will send me a message saying device has been offline too long but when looking at the controller it still is blue. I have a new router about 12 feet away from it separated by a wall, I have a new cable from connection outside to router. Problem seems to start happening after I connected the second quad outlet . Any ideas or advice?

Probably was a internet outage. I have seen a few people saying they had the same errors yesterday. I had one myself yesterday.
ATT for a provider?

Disconnect from the cloud does not necessarily mean your system is down but it can. It can be several other things. Internet outage can cause it but does not stop the Control from functioning correctly. I have also had it when they are working on the cloud.

It also could be the system is down but if you had blue lights everything is functioning right. Wireless outage or router going down but blue lights means that did not happen too.

All this leads me to believe there was some internet outage yesterday..

 

[Fishyj]

Sounds like I need to call spectrum. This is happening more and more.

 

[shred5]

Sounds like I need to call spectrum. This is happening more and more.

Good luck there. They do not care there is not enough competition in this country for internet. Here we have Spectrum and ATT. When ATT started offering internet in the area they were great 10 years later not so great. Where do I go Spectrum who stinks to begin with. United states is so far behind the world in internet.

 

[n2585722]

When it happens I always get a second text saying that it is connected. Since I have 5 control units and 4 wifi strips i get nine text for the disconnect and nine for the connect.

 

[rtparty]

Watched Deven's livestream about the updated Wave Engine and it pretty much solidified that Hydros is going on the new tank. I may even get it in now and swap out all my Apex gear. That way I can better plan how to setup the peninsula.

I only need temp monitor/control, pH monitor/control, water level shut-off stuff and maybe some leak ropes. I have been running a Tunze ATO for years with zero issues but the new tank is right in my basement living room next to my couch and theater setup. I need something a lot quieter. I have been thrilled with the ReefBreeders EXO so far but will look at the Hydros ATO as well.

Anyone reading this run halides with the Hydros? Odd question but do you get any false alarms? The Apex hates the signal an electronic ballast puts out and I get false alarms everyday. Usually 6-8 texts, push notifications and emails each. Beyond annoying and Neptune has no fix.

 

[shred5]

Watched Deven's livestream about the updated Wave Engine and it pretty much solidified that Hydros is going on the new tank. I may even get it in now and swap out all my Apex gear. That way I can better plan how to setup the peninsula.

I only need temp monitor/control, pH monitor/control, water level shut-off stuff and maybe some leak ropes. I have been running a Tunze ATO for years with zero issues but the new tank is right in my basement living room next to my couch and theater setup. I need something a lot quieter. I have been thrilled with the ReefBreeders EXO so far but will look at the Hydros ATO as well.

Anyone reading this run halides with the Hydros? Odd question but do you get any false alarms? The Apex hates the signal an electronic ballast puts out and I get false alarms everyday. Usually 6-8 texts, push notifications and emails each. Beyond annoying and Neptune has no fix.

I do not run MH right now but the Hydros has a preset output for them so I am guessing it should have no issues.

I do have a ATO by Tunze and have had several. The Tunze ATO is great and reliable but the pump is slightly loud. I have had to replace the pumps though. Roger is great and Tunze has great support. The ATO for the Hydros has a very quite pump. It is the same pump as used in allot of ATO's. Hard to beat the Tunze but time will tell.
If you prefer something else you do not need to hook it up to the Hydro's. You can still monitor water levels and use another ATO. Some have found ways to modify other ATO systems to work too. The DYI Mod community is doing allot with this system.

 

[shakygator]

I do not run MH right now but the Hydros has a preset output for them so I am guessing it should have no issues.

Do you know what setting we *should* be using for LEDs? There is an LED setting, but it has on/off times and my lights have built-in controllers. So I just chose constant. Would be nice to be able to toggle the on/off times or just constant (because I wanna be able to select LED lights instead of constant ).

 

[JeffB418]

Do you know what setting we *should* be using for LEDs? There is an LED setting, but it has on/off times and my lights have built-in controllers. So I just chose constant. Would be nice to be able to toggle the on/off times or just constant (because I wanna be able to select LED lights instead of constant ).

If your LEDs have built in timers/controllers, I would suggest not connecting them to Hydros. If you rather hook them up just in case, use the Constant output profile and leave them always enabled.

 

[shakygator]

If your LEDs have built in timers/controllers, I would suggest not connecting them to Hydros. If you rather hook them up just in case, use the Constant output profile and leave them always enabled.

I originally hooked them up b/c I thought the wifi outlets would give me current readings.

 

[newfly]

Questions on Heater Output

I have trouble understand what is "On Temperature". I am using a heater with build in thermostat. Hydros is just a fail safe. Heater thermostat set at 78F


I have the following on Hydros:

On Temp = 77.5
Off Temp = 80.5

What is the purpose of On Temp? What should i set it at? Should it be lower? higher?

I just want Hydros on turn off the heater if the temp > 80.5F. Otherwise turn ON all the time.

Any advise would be much appreciated.

 

[n2585722]

There is a hysteresis built into the control of .4 degrees. The turn on temp has to be .4 degrees below the turn off temp at a minimum. The way it works is the heater will come on if the temp goes below the turn on temp. It will stay on until it goes above or gets to the turn off temp. It will then stay off until it goes to or below the turn on temp. There is no way around this with the heater type output. You can set it to turn back on at 80.1 if you want. The way you have it set the output will not come back on until the temp get to or below 77.5 degrees if it ever get above the turn off point and turns off. I do mine opposite by having the Hydros control the temp and use the thermostat on the heater as the backup. I do this with both heaters. Always split the wattage between at least two heaters on two different outlets that are preferably on different power strips also. I also have the second heater set at a little lower temp.

 

[120reefkeeper]

You want to control the heater the opposite way. Use the controller to turn on and off and use the heaters internal thermostat as the backup.

 

[newfly]

There is a hysteresis built into the control of .4 degrees. The turn on temp has to be .4 degrees below the turn off temp at a minimum. The way it works is the heater will come on if the temp goes below the turn on temp. It will stay on until it goes above or gets to the turn off temp. It will then stay off until it goes to or below the turn on temp. There is no way around this with the heater type output. You can set it to turn back on at 80.1 if you want. The way you have it set the output will not come back on until the temp get to or below 77.5 degrees if it ever get above the turn off point and turns off. I do mine opposite by having the Hydros control the temp and use the thermostat on the heater as the backup. I do this with both heaters. Always split the wattage between at least two heaters on two different outlets that are preferably on different power strips also. I also have the second heater set at a little lower temp.

Thanks. I understand now. I follow your setup and have hydros control the heater and the build in thermostat on the heater as backup. I set on temp at 78.0 and OFF as 78.4

the temp swing btw the 2 temp. If I use the heater internal thermostat, I can get more constant temp at 78

 

[n2585722]

The smaller the hystereses is the more on and off cycles per given time frame. This can wear out the switch contacts quicker for that outlet. So it is a compromise between constant temp and wear on the equipment controlling the temp. The developers of the Hydros decided to go with .4 degrees as a minimum. They all have a hystereses even the mechanical thermostats.

 

[jafoca11]

I could be thick but...

Why is it preferable to use Hydros as main control and heater thermostat as backup?

It seems like the thermostat in the heater would be able to handle more cycles than the power strip - also I have not seen any MTBF type stats on how many cycles the Hydros strip can handle before it is dead - it seems like trying to use it for heater control would be a very good way to find out.

Also if you are using the Hydros for control, and it is doing like you said - on at min temp, stays on until off temp hit, unless you have them set quite close, that is a lot of swinging up and down OR a lot more cycles on the hydros switch/relay. I am really not sure which direction to go here....

My inclination was to do the same as @n2585722 and use Hydros as guardrails around the heater's own control (Eheim Jager, known for reliability).

I am actually considering an inkbird plugged into the hydros since at least that is proven and designed for the heater regulation role.

 

[n2585722]

I use the Hydros as the main control for temp. The thermostat in the heater is the backup. I have the heating split between two heaters that are on separate outlets. This is the same setup I was using on my archon. Below is the settings for both of my heater outputs. This time of year it is unlikely that my heaters will come on at all. My cooling fans do most of the work. I also posted a graph of the temp as you can see the temp has been above the heater settings the whole time.

 

[n2585722]

Here is a link to a CoralVue workshop about the Hydros and heaters here

 

[jafoca11]

I use the Hydros as the main control for temp. The thermostat in the heater is the backup. I have the heating split between two heaters that are on separate outlets. This is the same setup I was using on my archon. Below is the settings for both of my heater outputs. This time of year it is unlikely that my heaters will come on at all. My cooling fans do most of the work. I also posted a graph of the temp as you can see the temp has been above the heater settings the whole time.

Thanks for the reply - it looks like I tagged you by mistake and meant to tag @newfly as my thinking is more similar to theirs.

My graph, compared to yours, looks more like a saw-tooth pattern - probably because I am in Michigan where we are more dependent on heat still. I am currently set up essentially how Hydros recommends, and I don't like it because of the sharp 'up' swings when my heater turns on, but also because I think I overall have less confidence in the reliability of Hydros than the heater's own controller.

Re: temperature control - it's funny, but my experience with this comes from the Espresso world - espresso machines target trying to maintain precise temperature control while pulling shots to optimize the consistency of performance. In that space, most machines worth anything use PID (Proportional-Integral-Derivative) controllers on the heating elements. The result is that they account for the power of the heating element AND will turn on/off based on the direction temperature is changing not whether it is _only_ above/below a certain level. It seems like advanced aquarium controllers now-a-days should be able to do something similar but alas...

Anyway - I have seen the Hydros video but they don't go into the 'why' on there so much as just the 'how'. My feeling is that they suggest going that way because "when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail" type of situation - not because it is necessarily the best way of doing it for long term equipment health etc.

And yes - I also know that a heater should be considered a wear item and replaced on some kind of regular schedule. But if we are cycling the Hydros power strip that frequently now, do we have to also replace that every 1-2 years?

 

[n2585722]

Thanks for the reply - it looks like I tagged you by mistake and meant to tag @newfly as my thinking is more similar to theirs.

My graph, compared to yours, looks more like a saw-tooth pattern - probably because I am in Michigan where we are more dependent on heat still. I am currently set up essentially how Hydros recommends, and I don't like it because of the sharp 'up' swings when my heater turns on, but also because I think I overall have less confidence in the reliability of Hydros than the heater's own controller.

Re: temperature control - it's funny, but my experience with this comes from the Espresso world - espresso machines target trying to maintain precise temperature control while pulling shots to optimize the consistency of performance. In that space, most machines worth anything use PID (Proportional-Integral-Derivative) controllers on the heating elements. The result is that they account for the power of the heating element AND will turn on/off based on the direction temperature is changing not whether it is _only_ above/below a certain level. It seems like advanced aquarium controllers now-a-days should be able to do something similar but alas...

Anyway - I have seen the Hydros video but they don't go into the 'why' on there so much as just the 'how'. My feeling is that they suggest going that way because "when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail" type of situation - not because it is necessarily the best way of doing it for long term equipment health etc.

And yes - I also know that a heater should be considered a wear item and replaced on some kind of regular schedule. But if we are cycling the Hydros power strip that frequently now, do we have to also replace that every 1-2 years?

I had it the same way on my Archon controller for 5 years. I was still using the same PC4 power strip and the same heaters for that whole time. The PC4 power strip was still working correctly when I removed it. I am still using the same heaters. It may be more about a combination of wattage and on/off cycles of the heaters than just on/off cycles.