Hydros Maven is Delayed

[RoanokeReef]

Wonderful - it feels sturdy :)

I put the word "flimsy" in quotes, as that is what the word that the person I was responding to used.

Nonetheless, I think you fully missed the point of my comments and as such, they are not worth explaining.

Yea not worth explaining, this is the whole Xbox vs PlayStation or Apple vs Android. Very few can see both have benefits and shortcomings.

 

[nanoreefer23]

Define crucial.

I personally do not understand why you are so upset or feel slighted because they changed a date. Only employees of Hydros know why it was pushed back. We has hobbyist only know what they tell us. It is up to individuals to believe it or not. If you are of the type to read between the lines or blur it with conspiracy theories more power to you. It sounds exhausting to me though.

If you are that upset sell your stuff and move on. However I think a few of us believe you are over reacting by stomping your size 12 foot down with folded arms and a frowny face demanding a date. It just is not going to happen.

And I'm not even in the Hydros ecosystem and think this.

lol i’m not as mad as you think, simply frustrated. However it WAS crucial (to me) because it’s why I chose the Hydros over the Apex which I have one on another tank with a trident. Now that I have the hydros, and now it’s used, I’m not going get all my money back. I like the the modules I have but the Maven was really the deciding factor for me.

I’m not sure if you work in corporate or not but it’s become common practice to over promise (release date), usually by CEO, when they (at least the engineers) already know the product isn’t ready for prime time. I don’t know what happened but the “State of the Union” from the Coralvue YouTube channel, explanation for the delay seemed hokey. If the product works mechanically, they can always update the firmware automatically, they can improve the reagents etc.

I seem to have struck a nerve with a few people (which I didn’t mean to) and it might not matter to you, but it does to me. I have no idea when it will be released. The last update from Coralvue was 2 months ago (that I’m aware of).

 

[keithw283]

Wonderful - it feels sturdy :)

I put the word "flimsy" in quotes, as that is what the word that the person I was responding to used.

Nonetheless, I think you fully missed the point of my comments and as such, they are not worth explaining.

I am the person you were responding to. I used the word 'flimsy" because it is a cheap flimsy plastic. I work in plastics. That is my expert field. The outer shell being built out of the cheapest, flimsiest plastic you can find is a big deal to me. It is also a big deal to me that I can't just buy a trident as a standalone controller. This is all coming from a current apex user btw. Only switched to hydros like 2 months ago.

 

[keithw283]

Yea not worth explaining, this is the whole Xbox vs PlayStation or Apple vs Android. Very few can see both have benefits and shortcomings.

it's really not. I have an apex system. I won't have an apex system anymore in a few months. Is there anything on the apex that I can buy on it's own? You can't even buy the energy bar without also buying the base unit. That's ridiculous. What can the apex system do that the hydros can't?

 

[RoanokeReef]

it's really not. I have an apex system. I won't have an apex system anymore in a few months. Is there anything on the apex that I can buy on it's own? You can't even buy the energy bar without also buying the base unit. That's ridiculous. What can the apex system do that the hydros can't?

You proved my point, have a great day. Also - https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/energybar-832-neptune-systems.html

 

[keithw283]

You proved my point, have a great day. Also - https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/energybar-832-neptune-systems.html

What exactly did I prove? You buying that as a paper weight?

 

[BeanAnimal]

I am the person you were responding to. I used the word 'flimsy" because it is a cheap flimsy plastic. I work in plastics. That is my expert field. The outer shell being built out of the cheapest, flimsiest plastic you can find is a big deal to me. It is also a big deal to me that I can't just buy a trident as a standalone controller. This is all coming from a current apex user btw. Only switched to hydros like 2 months ago.

I used the term "flimsy" in quotes to denote overall product - from case to components to engineering (so, parts, firmware, design, etc.).

The context was this "Also, I refuse to pay hundreds of dollars for something as flimsy as half of the apex line. Especially the trident. That thing is very cheaply built" and the point was that:

Very rarely is anything you purchase going to be "over engineered" and as I said, pretty much just needs to make it a bit better than average, to to the warranty end date. It is not a "bad" thing, just reality. So "flimsy and cheaply built" -- contextually are most of the stuff we buy, one way or another.

So as it is, I don't care of the case is ABS, bakelite or platinum infused with ruby - my context was the overall unit and the reality of what has to be done to meet a price point and maintain some reasonable margin.

The Mavin may very well be a wonderful device and last decades -- but given that it will have electronics and wear parts, I doubt it, even if said wear parts and electronics could be engineered to last decades. :)

 

[RoanokeReef]

What exactly did I prove? You buying that as a paper weight?

You can't seem to have a conversation without APEX SUCKS blah blah, this is what fanboys do. I run both and they both work fine for their intended purposes. Competition is a great thing and I'm glad we have choices vs Neptune owning the market. This will force both to innovate or die out.

The link was because you said "You can't even buy the energy bar without also buying the base unit. That's ridiculous" which is untrue.

 

[areefer01]

The link was because you said "You can't even buy the energy bar without also buying the base unit. That's ridiculous" which is untrue.

They mean use as a stand alone product. Not purchase. In short you can't run the EB832 has a stand alone unit. It is a common theme when talking about some of the Neptune products especially the Trident. Often overlooked or misunderstood is that part of the reason they require one another is their functionality like Trident controlled dosing. Auto water change with the DOS. Things like that.

Doesn't mean they got everything right nor are they the bees knees but I think if we are all being honest these are all hobby grade products and a similar price point. Doesn't give anyone a pass on shoddy work but one has to put everything into perspective.

All of these controllers or equipment in general have their warts.

 

[keithw283]

You can't seem to have a conversation without APEX SUCKS blah blah, this is what fanboys do. I run both and they both work fine for their intended purposes. Competition is a great thing and I'm glad we have choices vs Neptune owning the market. This will force both to innovate or die out.

The link was because you said "You can't even buy the energy bar without also buying the base unit. That's ridiculous" which is untrue.

I don't know where these fanboy comments are coming from. Nothing I have stated so far is untrue. The only things I have said is that some of the apex units are built with cheap flimsy plastic. I highlighted the trident especially on that. That is a fact. Especially if you compare it to the hydros products. I also said the NP had a lot of issues on release. Did you see all the threads on here about that? I believe Neptune even stepped in saying they were working on it. I guess you can get me on a technicality that you can physically purchase the energy bar, but what good does that do you without buying the base unit?

 

[RoanokeReef]

I don't know where these fanboy comments are coming from. Nothing I have stated so far is untrue. The only things I have said is that some of the apex units are built with cheap flimsy plastic. I highlighted the trident especially on that. That is a fact. Especially if you compare it to the hydros products. I also said the NP had a lot of issues on release. Did you see all the threads on here about that? I believe Neptune even stepped in saying they were working on it. I guess you can get me on a technicality that you can physically purchase the energy bar, but what good does that do you without buying the base unit?

OK you win the internet; hope you have a great weekend.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I guess you can get me on a technicality that you can physically purchase the energy bar, but what good does that do you without buying the base unit?

What technicality? ? It requires the “base unit” because it is a controlled peripheral, not a controller.

The same with GHL and their controlled receptacle
bars, the same with a home full of lutron smart lighting or receptacles, etc.

You are comparing apples and oranges. The systems have different system architectures.

 

[armyvetheather]

I just came to see if anyone had heard about an update on the Maven?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Carlos from CV gave a response a few days ago, that was basically "nothing has changed in what we said... so sit tight and it will come one day".

 

[cowfootball]

That feels like a large step backward -- but that is just me. You couldn't give a complete Apex system for free at this point.

It isn't a step backward but it is overreacting a bit. If it even happened.

Hobbyist have different experiences with equipment as you know and they all have their quirks. Not trying to sway you obviously.

In my case it's just a "straw that broke the camels back" moment. I've had a lot of issues with Hydros since setting it up a year ago and hit a lot of limitations. I'm a software engineer by trade, though, so many of the downsides of Apex aren't an issue for me like they might be for some other folks (& I totally understand that).

Hydros has a lot of good ideas that seem to get half-implemented and left half baked forever.

For example, I bought the skimmer level sensor and attached it to my skimate collector and I thought that I would be able to hook this up to my skimmer pump to automatically shut it off -- but I can't. Why? Because my skimmer pump is controlled by a WaveEngine and the two products don't integrate.

Actually, I have probably 10 issues and 8 of them are related to WaveEngine features being non-functional, half-implemented or variations of "this should definitely work but the UI is so restrictive I can't plumb it"... which is coincidentally the last big product release from CoralVue. In my mind, it's a consistent trend of marketing-over-product.

I know that the generous interpretation is "they're waiting to release a quality product!" and people might not agree with my alternative "they announced a product that wasn't even close to ready and they did it because they wanted to discourage people from buying the Trident and wanted to pretend that it was closer to ready than it actually was and they're still going to release a product that isn't polished" but that's how I feel. ;)

 

[n2585722]

In my case it's just a "straw that broke the camels back" moment. I've had a lot of issues with Hydros since setting it up a year ago and hit a lot of limitations. I'm a software engineer by trade, though, so many of the downsides of Apex aren't an issue for me like they might be for some other folks (& I totally understand that).

Hydros has a lot of good ideas that seem to get half-implemented and left half baked forever.

For example, I bought the skimmer level sensor and attached it to my skimate collector and I thought that I would be able to hook this up to my skimmer pump to automatically shut it off -- but I can't. Why? Because my skimmer pump is controlled by a WaveEngine and the two products don't integrate.

Actually, I have probably 10 issues and 8 of them are related to WaveEngine features being non-functional, half-implemented or variations of "this should definitely work but the UI is so restrictive I can't plumb it"... which is coincidentally the last big product release from CoralVue. In my mind, it's a consistent trend of marketing-over-product.

you can setup the pump as a run continuously and set the flow rate you want it to run at. The setup the normal skimmer output but leave the device output to none. The set the depends on in the skimmer pump output to the skimmer output and set the dependency mode to off if off and the skimmer pump output will follow the skimmer output. That output has an input for the skimmer sensor.

The wave engine is actually the first item that was out in the Hydros family with the WEv1. It has been replaced by the WEv2. The main difference is the WEv1 could not be used as wifi master but the WEv2 can. I use a WEv2 to control my 2 MP10's and I have not had any issues getting it to control them like I want.

 

[cowfootball]

you can setup the pump as a run continuously and set the flow rate you want it to run at. The setup the normal skimmer output but leave the device output to none. The set the depends on in the skimmer pump output to the skimmer output and set the dependency mode to off if off and the skimmer pump output will follow the skimmer output. That output has an input for the skimmer sensor.

The wave engine is actually the first item that was out in the Hydros family with the WEv1. It has been replaced by the WEv2. The main difference is the WEv1 could not be used as wifi master but the WEv2 can. I use a WEv2 to control my 2 MP10's and I have not had any issues getting it to control them like I want.

This is precisely the incredibly convoluted, half-baked product design that I'm talking about. This is the thread I have with CoralVue support on this topic (one of many open support tickets) and they didn't come up this solution.

This problem could be trivially solved by adding "protein skimmer" as an option in the WEv2 output configuration. The entire pitch of Hydros over Apex (at least to me) is the reduced complexity but that's not the reality for even products within their own line.

My XF330's (prior to their demise and replacement with MP40, anyway) had huge issues on WaveEngine that came down to... the QA on the cable adapters. That was another 30+ 1 month long thread with CoralVue support that I ended up resolving by buying 8 adapter cables and finding that 6 had QA failures in the pinouts. This was supports official response when I raised that cable QA was likely the culprit:

It's a common occurrence and can cause all kinds of different issues.

Anyways, I didn't mean to turn this into a Hydros hate thread. I was just trying to address the overreaction comment and add a little colour to why I'm skeptical that they're holding a release because they really, really value QA and product perfection.

 

[areefer01]

My XF330's (prior to their demise and replacement with MP40, anyway) had huge issues on WaveEngine that came down to... the QA on the cable adapters. That was another 30+ 1 month long thread with CoralVue support that I ended up resolving by buying 8 adapter cables and finding that 6 had QA failures in the pinouts. This was supports official response when I raised that cable QA was likely the culprit:

While not the XF330 in your case I was having issues with the XF280. Maxspects controller the motor block can go as fast as .5 ms. When using the Wave Engine it is governed to 2 seconds. Few back and forth with Hydros support their reply was asking me how do I know that the Maxspect was actually driving the gyre with that quick of a response time.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Hydros has a lot of good ideas that seem to get half-implemented and left half baked forever.

This is my opinion - so take it for what it is worth.

I have never had hands on with the product, and nothing personal against David or Carlos (at all) -- but from top to bottom the product offering and ecosystem feels like somebodies kid is running the R&D and Marketing and they just bounce from random idea to random idea with no real roadmap or direction. So the "good idea -- half implemented" makes perfect sense.

The product names alone, are ridiculous. They don't follow a pattern or theme and instead feel like (again) somebody let their kids come up with the names. So the names really don't tell you what products are available or what they really do is one thing. You can't hop on their website and figure it out either. No product matrix, no uniform product specs specs or feature roadmap, etc. Just silly names and pages of pretty pictures and platitudes.

So to me - while they may be "serious" about wanting to be in the controller market, and may even see it as the savior of the company in this new economic and participation reckoning -- they (in my opinion) have not taken a serious approach to design or implementation and are flying by the seat of their pants. I could be 100% wrong.

 

[cowfootball]

This is my opinion - so take it for what it is worth.

I have never had hands on with the product, and nothing personal against David or Carlos (at all) -- but from top to bottom the product offering and ecosystem feels like somebodies kid is running the R&D and Marketing and they just bounce from random idea to random idea with no real roadmap or direction. So the "good idea -- half implemented" makes perfect sense.

The product names alone, are ridiculous. They don't follow a pattern or theme and instead feel like (again) somebody let their kids come up with the names. So the names really don't tell you what products are available or what they really do is one thing. You can't hop on their website and figure it out either. No product matrix, no uniform product specs specs or feature roadmap, etc. Just silly names and pages of pretty pictures and platitudes.

So to me - while they may be "serious" about wanting to be in the controller market, and may even see it as the savior of the company in this new economic and participation reckoning -- they (in my opinion) have not taken a serious approach to design or implementation and are flying by the seat of their pants. I could be 100% wrong.

I couldn't agree more. They have a great idea for a random product and they make it, release it and move on. But they only half-integrate it into the UI, don't fully consider the use cases, etc.

So, glass half full, they don't want to do that with a $1200 water tester. Glass half empty, they're going to do what they've done with every other product.