Wanted to share my experience with LCA dinoflagellates (Large Cell Amphidinium).
TL;DR
I think I beat Dinos with bacteria and being lazy...
I encourage you to read the whole thing though...
I also wanted to share this experience to ease the mind of some others.
Now, before I really delve into what I did. I want to make it clear that I've only been visually dino free for ~ 2 weeks now. The dinos I had were only on the sand bed. of what i can see and have read about them. Have I really beaten them? Time will tell...
I panicked. I'm sure a lot of other reefers in my position would. I went out bought a UV sterilizer (doesn't really do much for LCA dino) as this type digs into the sand after lights out rather than going into the water column. That was before i did deep research. Again... it was the panicked brain... I was told many of things to do. Which credibly a lot of it made sense. Take that multi - attack approach to the situation.
I took a step back and after reading, listening and talking with others in similar situations. I took the natural approach. Raise them nutrients and added bacteria.
If you want some solid advice, check out Reefbums streams (also podcasts on Spotify) where he addresses the issues with Jack Kent of Brightwell Aquatics and Dr. Tim. Listening to them gave me a better understanding of how bacteria work. Really how crucial it is for everything that goes on in our aquariums and how little we still know about bacteria...
There is also an FB support group. Which they have an awesome PDF with pictures along with what to do if you have a particular dino to deal with. Macks Reef... Dinoflagellates support group. Ive never posted or talked to anyone in there. Did not really have too as there is so much knowledge to read up and I assure you will get your answer.
I had a low bio load. Not many fish as i spent most of my reefing funds on corals.
Fish tank is a Red Sea Reefer 250 started with dry rock and cycled with brightwells startXLM
- How did I get Dinos in the first place?
I wasn't testing for nitrate and phosphate after the first month of cycling. I'm not really too anal about it being in the precise numbers of those parameters. I test weekly now for them but just as a checkup. I was also dosing Microbacter7 if you haven't used this product. It works very very well. Also, my skimmer was on after the first 2 weeks.
My nutrients bottomed out. I found out after the "brown dusting" kept showing up and not going away. First i thought it was just diatoms. Completely normal for new tanks. A good sign that things are on track.
Weeks turn into months and still not going away. Dawned on me that something was different about these diatoms... looked much thicker when I really took a closer look. After research (a quick google search) lol. A good facepalm and the realization... this was dinos.
To summarize that question. I did not have enough of a bio load to feed all the good bacteria in turn allowed the Dino to show themselves.
- What products did i buy?
Noticing the low NO3 I purchased Brightwells Neo Nitro (liquid nitrate in a bottle) dosed about 5ml every day. Bacteria need the nutrients to survive and not allow pests like dinos to take hold. I started dosing this every day at 5mls. Testing nitrates everyday with salifert NO3 kit i got my nitrates to 5. It seemed the nitrates stabilized at 5 with the daily dosing and water changes. So, I stuck with that number for the most part. Phosphates hovered around .01 - .05
I initially bought Dr. Tims waste away and Re - fresh. I went through (2) large bottles of each and saw little change. I was really discouraged. I thought after 2 rounds of this stuff id be near clear of dinos. Bacteria take time to really establish to colonize and starve out the bad bacteria. I really did not want to do the black out as recommended by Dr Tims instructions
I went out and bought Brightwells Microbacter Clean. Went through 1 bottle and still saw little change. Again... discouraged. Kept telling myself be patient nothing good happens overnight in a reef tank.
I bought a second bottle of Microbacter clean but this time, after talking with a friend about it, I bought MB7 again. I've read a lot of solid things about this combo. I was hesitant because of how well MB7 works. I was doing daily dose of MB7 with weekly dosing of MB clean... well... i bottomed out nitrates AGAIN... smh.
I reverted to just weekly dosing of both products. Got my nitrates back up.
I feel that these two in conjunction were the nail in the coffin for Dinos. Its speculation honestly. That and my tank is nearing 16 months old since it first got wet.
- What was my method?
Well, I'll be honest. With the whole being patient mindset I was kind of lazy about it some weeks. Other weeks I was really on my game.
I siphoned the sandbed during water changes and did some sand sifting. At the time of the dino battle I had some turf algae growing and pieces of it would fall into the sandbed. Some patches were really thick...
A notable mention is that the first 3 weeks of December 2021 I did not do a water change. Work was busy and I was getting home later than normal. Could this play a part of beating dinos? I feel as though it did, but the rest of my tank did suffer and I lost a couple corals
Sunday - Water change + Dr Tims eco balance (this bacteria bottle is fairly new to me and why I didn't really mention it above) +Neo Nitro Skimmer off overnight
Monday - Dosed Microbacter Clean + NeoNitro skimmer off overnight
Tuesday - Dosed Microbacter 7 + Neo Nitro Skimmer off overnight
Rest of the week just fed heavy.
Rinse and repeat.
In recent weeks i noticed less of the dinos and more cyano popping up. I think this was a good sign that other bacteria were starting to take over. What caused the cyano? Not sure but i was quite delighted to see it. Thinking to myslef "this is it" this is the sign ive been looking for that the dinos are becoming weaker and allowing other bacteria to take hold.
Never thought id be happy to see cyano in my tank... lol. The cyano disappeared after the most recent water change i did. Could have been bacteria doing its job.
*As of last week's nitrate test i am near 20ppm and will discontinue Neo Nitro*
- What now?
Ill continue the schedule I have above. Using the same products because I really do think it's all working. If the dinos show back up again then I'll move the remaining corals out and turn the lights off.
Ill probably buy more fish to increase the bio load hopefully avoiding low nutrients again. I want to get to the point of heavy import and heavy export. Just to have that available nutrients for the bacteria and coral to really thrive.
- If I were to go back and start again, what would I have done differently?
Bought live rock.... if possible of course. Maybe cook dry rock for a couple months. Hindsight...
That and i wouldn't skimp out on fish...
I would cycle longer with the lights off and dosed a variety of bacteria to the tank and monitor nitrates a little more closely.
Thanks for reading this far. Hopefully this encourages more people to not give up as I think starting over would be the worst thing you could do.
Keeping it simple and letting nature do its thing played in my favor.
Please, feel free to comment your findings with this dino or any others. I know theres a million threads asking about dinos. I felt as though it would be helpful to rather share an experience;
Happy Reefing.
-Joe
TL;DR
I think I beat Dinos with bacteria and being lazy...
I encourage you to read the whole thing though...
I also wanted to share this experience to ease the mind of some others.
Now, before I really delve into what I did. I want to make it clear that I've only been visually dino free for ~ 2 weeks now. The dinos I had were only on the sand bed. of what i can see and have read about them. Have I really beaten them? Time will tell...
I panicked. I'm sure a lot of other reefers in my position would. I went out bought a UV sterilizer (doesn't really do much for LCA dino) as this type digs into the sand after lights out rather than going into the water column. That was before i did deep research. Again... it was the panicked brain... I was told many of things to do. Which credibly a lot of it made sense. Take that multi - attack approach to the situation.
I took a step back and after reading, listening and talking with others in similar situations. I took the natural approach. Raise them nutrients and added bacteria.
If you want some solid advice, check out Reefbums streams (also podcasts on Spotify) where he addresses the issues with Jack Kent of Brightwell Aquatics and Dr. Tim. Listening to them gave me a better understanding of how bacteria work. Really how crucial it is for everything that goes on in our aquariums and how little we still know about bacteria...
There is also an FB support group. Which they have an awesome PDF with pictures along with what to do if you have a particular dino to deal with. Macks Reef... Dinoflagellates support group. Ive never posted or talked to anyone in there. Did not really have too as there is so much knowledge to read up and I assure you will get your answer.
I had a low bio load. Not many fish as i spent most of my reefing funds on corals.
Fish tank is a Red Sea Reefer 250 started with dry rock and cycled with brightwells startXLM
- How did I get Dinos in the first place?
I wasn't testing for nitrate and phosphate after the first month of cycling. I'm not really too anal about it being in the precise numbers of those parameters. I test weekly now for them but just as a checkup. I was also dosing Microbacter7 if you haven't used this product. It works very very well. Also, my skimmer was on after the first 2 weeks.
My nutrients bottomed out. I found out after the "brown dusting" kept showing up and not going away. First i thought it was just diatoms. Completely normal for new tanks. A good sign that things are on track.
Weeks turn into months and still not going away. Dawned on me that something was different about these diatoms... looked much thicker when I really took a closer look. After research (a quick google search) lol. A good facepalm and the realization... this was dinos.
To summarize that question. I did not have enough of a bio load to feed all the good bacteria in turn allowed the Dino to show themselves.
- What products did i buy?
Noticing the low NO3 I purchased Brightwells Neo Nitro (liquid nitrate in a bottle) dosed about 5ml every day. Bacteria need the nutrients to survive and not allow pests like dinos to take hold. I started dosing this every day at 5mls. Testing nitrates everyday with salifert NO3 kit i got my nitrates to 5. It seemed the nitrates stabilized at 5 with the daily dosing and water changes. So, I stuck with that number for the most part. Phosphates hovered around .01 - .05
I initially bought Dr. Tims waste away and Re - fresh. I went through (2) large bottles of each and saw little change. I was really discouraged. I thought after 2 rounds of this stuff id be near clear of dinos. Bacteria take time to really establish to colonize and starve out the bad bacteria. I really did not want to do the black out as recommended by Dr Tims instructions
I went out and bought Brightwells Microbacter Clean. Went through 1 bottle and still saw little change. Again... discouraged. Kept telling myself be patient nothing good happens overnight in a reef tank.
I bought a second bottle of Microbacter clean but this time, after talking with a friend about it, I bought MB7 again. I've read a lot of solid things about this combo. I was hesitant because of how well MB7 works. I was doing daily dose of MB7 with weekly dosing of MB clean... well... i bottomed out nitrates AGAIN... smh.
I reverted to just weekly dosing of both products. Got my nitrates back up.
I feel that these two in conjunction were the nail in the coffin for Dinos. Its speculation honestly. That and my tank is nearing 16 months old since it first got wet.
- What was my method?
Well, I'll be honest. With the whole being patient mindset I was kind of lazy about it some weeks. Other weeks I was really on my game.
I siphoned the sandbed during water changes and did some sand sifting. At the time of the dino battle I had some turf algae growing and pieces of it would fall into the sandbed. Some patches were really thick...
A notable mention is that the first 3 weeks of December 2021 I did not do a water change. Work was busy and I was getting home later than normal. Could this play a part of beating dinos? I feel as though it did, but the rest of my tank did suffer and I lost a couple corals
Sunday - Water change + Dr Tims eco balance (this bacteria bottle is fairly new to me and why I didn't really mention it above) +Neo Nitro Skimmer off overnight
Monday - Dosed Microbacter Clean + NeoNitro skimmer off overnight
Tuesday - Dosed Microbacter 7 + Neo Nitro Skimmer off overnight
Rest of the week just fed heavy.
Rinse and repeat.
In recent weeks i noticed less of the dinos and more cyano popping up. I think this was a good sign that other bacteria were starting to take over. What caused the cyano? Not sure but i was quite delighted to see it. Thinking to myslef "this is it" this is the sign ive been looking for that the dinos are becoming weaker and allowing other bacteria to take hold.
Never thought id be happy to see cyano in my tank... lol. The cyano disappeared after the most recent water change i did. Could have been bacteria doing its job.
*As of last week's nitrate test i am near 20ppm and will discontinue Neo Nitro*
- What now?
Ill continue the schedule I have above. Using the same products because I really do think it's all working. If the dinos show back up again then I'll move the remaining corals out and turn the lights off.
Ill probably buy more fish to increase the bio load hopefully avoiding low nutrients again. I want to get to the point of heavy import and heavy export. Just to have that available nutrients for the bacteria and coral to really thrive.
- If I were to go back and start again, what would I have done differently?
Bought live rock.... if possible of course. Maybe cook dry rock for a couple months. Hindsight...
That and i wouldn't skimp out on fish...
I would cycle longer with the lights off and dosed a variety of bacteria to the tank and monitor nitrates a little more closely.
Thanks for reading this far. Hopefully this encourages more people to not give up as I think starting over would be the worst thing you could do.
Keeping it simple and letting nature do its thing played in my favor.
Please, feel free to comment your findings with this dino or any others. I know theres a million threads asking about dinos. I felt as though it would be helpful to rather share an experience;
Happy Reefing.
-Joe
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