I need help with an electric issue.

[Utwo229]

Not sure my reply made it...

Watt-A-Meter is showing your usage over time, not instatenous peak usage which the breaker is responding to. Anytime a motor cycles on, it will spike the amperage (wattage) for a fraction of a second. Enough to trip the breaker if you are running at the edge. If you really want to know the peak on running load, you need a different meter.

Anyways, your inverter has two 40 amp fuses on the back. so your DC side is protected and you should eliminate the 10 amp in-line fuse to test further. On the A/C side, you have no breaker but since the inverter is limited to 4.2 amps, that shouldn't be a problem since if you overdraw the available supply that the inverter can make, it will likely blow the fuse on the DC side.

And not to get too deep into this, but get the actual power required, you also need to take into account the efficiency (power factor) of the inverter to make the conversion from the battery DC to the line voltage A/C.

 

[jsmkmavity]

The reason i am concerned about the contacts is because of the lead acid battery for the back up. Over time everything in the space with it is likely to corrode.

 

[jsmkmavity]

I am not suggesting the lead acid battery needs to go, just recommend some form of air movement or relocation of the battery away from "mission critical equipment".

 

[Reefering1]

The reason i am concerned about the contacts is because of the lead acid battery for the back up. Over time everything in the space with it is likely to corrode.

This is not accurate.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The reason i am concerned about the contacts is because of the lead acid battery for the back up. Over time everything in the space with it is likely to corrode.

"Lead Acid" batteries off-gas hydrogen and oxygen... Not corrosive on their own.

Without going too far down a path, there are (3) basic types of lead acid batteries

Flooded Cell - where the battery has caps that must by popped off and the battery fluid (acid) level maintained manually by addition of distilled water. You don't add "acid" because it does not evaporate. You add water to top it off as the water evaporates.

Maintenance Free - where battery is flooded with acid, but the battery caps are sealed and vent check valves allow gas to escape. The batteries don't evaporate enough fluid to have to be maintained.

AGM Cells - Instead of flooded with wet holding chambers, the liquid is absorbed in glass fiber matts. These are what touch the plates, no sloshing around liquid.


The off gassing of maintenance free cells is (far) less than flooded cells and the off gassing from AGM less than maintenance free (they are essentially sealed). None of them are corrosive unless somehow you get the acid to come out of them.

 

[jsmkmavity]

I have actual experience with this scenario and can tell you it is accurate, especially when the battery gets older.

 

[jsmkmavity]

I have switched older systems from lead acid to agm for that reason

 

[BeanAnimal]

I have actual experience with this scenario and can tell you it is accurate, especially when the battery gets older.

Respectfully, I likely have far more experience with lead-acid batteries (all types) than you do.

1. Over a decade in underground mining. Our "battery" boxes on equipment contained dozens (literally) of large lead-acid wet cells. The primary danger was explosion, not corrosion.
2. Two decades working with UPS systems for servers and data centers, including racks of batteries resembling aisles in a grocery store. Again, the concern was explosion, not corrosion.

Now, let’s break this down:

• Lead-acid batteries themselves don’t produce corrosive gases unless there’s a leak or physical damage. The typical off-gassing consists of hydrogen and oxygen, which are not corrosive.
• Over time, older batteries—especially flooded cell types left on float charge—can deteriorate. Sulfates can damage the plates, and during a high-current charge cycle, the electrolyte may boil and vent acid mist. This mist, though minimal, can cause corrosion. However, this situation arises only when a battery is far past its service life. At that point, the danger isn’t corrosion; it’s catastrophic failure. Let me be clear, if you have a wet cell battery that is causing corrosion to the surrounding area, that battery is damaged enough to catastrophically fail, be it by boiling over or shorting plates and catching fire or damaging the charging circuit.
• Sealed AGM or maintenance-free batteries eliminate this risk, as does using a proper intelligent charger.

So, while corrosion is possible in extreme abuse cases, it’s neither a guaranteed nor a common outcome. More importantly, wet-cell batteries should never be used indoors without ample ventilation, as the danger of explosion is acute.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I have switched older systems from lead acid to agm for that reason

AGM batteries are lead acid batteries, as are maintenance free types. You need to be specific when talking about the type of lead acid cell.

We can talk about the failure modes of the (3) types, but I think that is outside the scope of this conversatioon.

Of the (3) types. The flooded "Wet Cell" is the least common and should not be used indoors in most situations anyway. That is the point that should be taken away from this exchange.

The other types (Maintenance free and AGM) are far safer. Corrosion is not the issue (for any of them), concentrated hydrogen and oxygen gas accumulation is for the wet cell, and to an extent the maintenance free cell.

Please -- let's not take this thread further off track.

 

[jsmkmavity]

True. I wasnt being specific or accurate when i said lead acid. Was referring to the less expensive standard lead acid batteries causing problems in enclosed spaces as they age. I am not wanting to argue, only want to help someone avoid problems i have experienced myself and with my customers.

 

[jsmkmavity]

I also made a mistake by assuming the deep cycle lead acid battery dom listed in the components was the standard less expensive style because that is what the average diy-er will use. The 20 amp breaker should address the main issue and the new ats should be nice to have since it will reset automatically. Hope everything fits and connects easily for you dom. I suggest testing battery voltage every 3 months after a battery is 3-4 years old so you know when it is time to replace.

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

I suppose I could, but that would cost a lot of money.

All equipment in the tank would have to be replaced; return pump, skimmer pump and power heads would all have to be replaced. And I can't justify replacing working equipment.

You don’t need to replace your working equipment. Just run auxiliary 12 Vdc pumps off of your Wet Cell Battery. Use a RIB “ Relay In a Box,” Wired so it’s open when you have power. Loss of power closes the relay and the 12 Vdc Pumps Run. I used the Mountain Ark, pumps from Amazon. You don’t need the full flow that your main pumps provide for a short term power outage.

 

[jsmkmavity]

Did you get your new ats installed?
How is everyrhing working?

 

[Dom]

Did you get your new ats installed?
How is everyrhing working?

Excellent timing; I was just sitting down to post an update.

I don't know what went wrong, initially. But the damaged components were:

• Melted temperature controller.
• Failed GFI.
• ATS

I wish I could determine which was the first domino to fall in the chain.

Yes, I did change out all of the above components, the ATS being the last.

Apparently the existing ATS's current sensor would detect the loss of AC power and switch to battery, but would not switch back when AC power returned.

But all is working well and as designed now.

The new ATS switches over in a fraction of a second as opposed to the old one, which would take 4-6 seconds.

I did a short power test yesterday; pulled the power on the main and everything kicked over to battery. I ran it for two hours without issue.

Problem solved.

I want to thank everyone who participated in this thread. I couldn't have fixed it without your input.

Thank you,
Dom.

 

[jsmkmavity]

Glad it working again!

 

[Reefering1]

Question...

Is there a grounding probe in this tank?

 

[Reefering1]

@Dom

 

[Dom]

Question...

Is there a grounding probe in this tank?

Yes! Why?

 

[lonhater]

Thanks for posting results

 

[Reefering1]

Yes! Why?

Bean brought it to my attention, some time ago in a different thread, and now I see it everywhere with battery backup systems(including mine)...

Your gfci is in the "wrong" place in the circuit. It should be after the battery backup, or transfer switch in your setup.

When on backup power the inverter will provide uninterrupted power and ground probe will be a path to ground. In other words the gfci will not trip and there is the potential of electrocution....