I want an Angler So Bad.
- Thread starter duberii
- Start date
- Tagged users None
OP
OP
duberii
Valuable Member
Can you give any guidance about amphipods? Since they're full grown they probably have a tougher shell, which may be an issue? I assume they'd be similarly nutritious to baby ghost shrimp.
Also they said they were "training" it to move to that rock whenever it's hungry- they only feed it there. Looks like it picked up on that fast.
OP
OP
duberii
Valuable Member
I'm actually inclined to say it's a painted angler- Looking at pictures of wartys, the second and third dorsal spines look like sails, while this one's is pretty flat to its body. The third dorsal spine also seems far more pronounced in the wartys, though the main difference I notice is in the second. The other thing I have to mention is that it lacks any of the red/orange/brown/blue whatever irregular blotches on the skin. I'm not sure if that is actually their skin or something that grows on them as they age (as it seems in the pictures that aged anglers have some other life growing in those areas). The only characteristic of a painted angler I don't see is the 3 spots on the tail, but the frogfish website you linked says almost all of them have it, and this could be one of the rare ones that don't. If I'm missing something let me know but that's why I'm thinking its a painted angler.
Just for fun, I just looked at the other species the website said it could be, which is the giant angler- and I must say a lot of them do look pretty similar. This is a picture of one-Note the two spots on the tail, the knobby-looking dorsal spines, and something about the eyes look similar to me, but I'm not as convinced that it's a giant angler.
Last edited:
The most common 3 antennarius species we see, the warty, painted, and giant all look so similar at that size; like I said, even experts have a hard time identifying them. My 1st thoughts was a painted, I had painteds with the 3 eyespots on the dorsal fin, not the tail. They grow pretty fast at that size if fed properly, so you'll get a definite ID soon enough. The painteds are my favorites.
Do NOT establish a feeding spot, if you do you will literally turn him into a bump on a log. They are sedentary creatures by nature, they will learn quickly where to get food, then they will just camp out, rarely if ever even moving, and wait for you to feed them. Eventually they even stop using their esca and stop fishing all together. Instead encourage him to hunt his food. At 1st you may have to help by herding the food with a rigid airline toward him, but eventually he'll catch on. Then you put the food in and he will track them down, you'll watch his cunning, stalking and getting into position to ambush, using his lure. If he is a painted he will start to recognize you as the "food giver", and start fishing you when you walk by, to say "give me food". When they have to hunt for their food they are move active and entertaining, my warty would take these "recon missions" where he would "swim", kind of floaty using his jet packs, to scour the tank looking for food. You'll random see him fishing because there is a stray ghostie that escaped and now he's trying to catch him. You can herd any food toward him if you want to help, to make sure he is getting enough food. By him finding food in all positions of the tank, it encourages him to be more active. Don't turn him into a bump on a log waiting to be fed,
Amphipods are good food. You do want to manage the availability of food, because they will gorge themselves to death. Itty bitty ones do need to eat more frequently though, you do want to be able to chart his growth, or you are not feeding enough. After a meal to see a nice bulge in his belly is good, not jabba the hut, but a nice bulge.
Do NOT establish a feeding spot, if you do you will literally turn him into a bump on a log. They are sedentary creatures by nature, they will learn quickly where to get food, then they will just camp out, rarely if ever even moving, and wait for you to feed them. Eventually they even stop using their esca and stop fishing all together. Instead encourage him to hunt his food. At 1st you may have to help by herding the food with a rigid airline toward him, but eventually he'll catch on. Then you put the food in and he will track them down, you'll watch his cunning, stalking and getting into position to ambush, using his lure. If he is a painted he will start to recognize you as the "food giver", and start fishing you when you walk by, to say "give me food". When they have to hunt for their food they are move active and entertaining, my warty would take these "recon missions" where he would "swim", kind of floaty using his jet packs, to scour the tank looking for food. You'll random see him fishing because there is a stray ghostie that escaped and now he's trying to catch him. You can herd any food toward him if you want to help, to make sure he is getting enough food. By him finding food in all positions of the tank, it encourages him to be more active. Don't turn him into a bump on a log waiting to be fed,
Amphipods are good food. You do want to manage the availability of food, because they will gorge themselves to death. Itty bitty ones do need to eat more frequently though, you do want to be able to chart his growth, or you are not feeding enough. After a meal to see a nice bulge in his belly is good, not jabba the hut, but a nice bulge.
OP
OP
duberii
Valuable Member
Sounds good; I guess it would be good to alternate between foods to give some variety- I'm definitely learning that is a huge part of long term success in keeping fish- especially one that eats live food. Once it gets big enough to eat larger ghost shrimp, I'll probably feed ghost shrimp, young guppies, and amphipods. I assume I should be monitoring the feeding, and not just tossing the food in and assuming it'll eat. When it gets a bit bigger, I might end up monitoring feeding of a ghost shrimp or two then tossing in some amphipods to chase around in its free time or something- hopefully that might keep it a bit more active. I might keep a ball of chaeto in the smaller tank so the amphipods don't burrow into the rock out of reach- perhaps that will help with nutrient control as well.
As far as the 3 similar species, their care is pretty much the same, right? I'll have it in the 10-gallon tank until it gets maybe double the size (and won't get lost in the 40 breeder). If it's a giant angler, I'd probably need to upgrade its tank beyond the 40 breeder, but that wouldn't happen for a bit I hope. At that point, I could probably feed it goldfish or something. I also had no idea they would be smart enough to recognize the person feeding them- is that specific to painteds for some reason or is that just the only one you've witnessed it with?
Their care is the same. Don't feed goldfish, painted and giants will eventually need to fed mollies. Goldfish are high in negative fats and contain thiaminese which binds vitamin B1, they are a killer. Mollies have a similar fat and protein structure, and easily live in salt water. All of my larger predators live many years eating mollies as their primary diet.
I had one painted that was so aware, my girlfriend was so jealous, he would fish me and not her. He recognized me as the food giver. He would be at one end of the tank and when I got home I would sit in my favorite chair at the other end. He would then cruise over so he could hang with me. This is very common with the predatory fish I keep, they have a different consciousness than other fish, more aware. My rhino hops around following me from one end of the tank to the other, as well as my lions; it's not just a blanket response, they don't do it with anyone else. It may just be a food thing, but it does mean they can recognize us. My warty was never as interactive with activity outside the tank.
I had one painted that was so aware, my girlfriend was so jealous, he would fish me and not her. He recognized me as the food giver. He would be at one end of the tank and when I got home I would sit in my favorite chair at the other end. He would then cruise over so he could hang with me. This is very common with the predatory fish I keep, they have a different consciousness than other fish, more aware. My rhino hops around following me from one end of the tank to the other, as well as my lions; it's not just a blanket response, they don't do it with anyone else. It may just be a food thing, but it does mean they can recognize us. My warty was never as interactive with activity outside the tank.
OP
OP
duberii
Valuable Member
That's a lot of mollies for a 12" fish! I wish there was one step up for larger fish, though I guess there aren't too many predators that have as large a stomach as a giant frogfish.
I also wonder why predators are so intelligent- It seems that even at the fish store, the predators seem to be genuinely interested in what's happening outside the tank, and even seem to really enjoy when people come up to the tank. The fish feel more like pets if you look at them and they look back at you, if that makes sense.
OP
OP
duberii
Valuable Member
Are there any specific ingredients I should be looking for in foods to gut load feeder fish/shrimp?
On the food I have it says:
crude protein - 49% min
crude fat- 14% min
crude fiber- 3.5% max
moisture- 7% max
crude ash- 15% max
Also includes at least 400 ppm of Astaxanthin
Ingredients: Krill/Fish/Squid Meal, Haematocococus, Calcium Phosphate, Guar Gum, Soy Lecithin, potato Starch, Wheat Flour, Betaine, Licorice Plant, Fish Oil, Apple Extract, Wheat germ. (My fish and corals go crazy for this stuff so it would be cool if I could feed it to the feeders.
I just not sure what I should be looking to supplement in the food and what I should be avoiding.
On the food I have it says:
crude protein - 49% min
crude fat- 14% min
crude fiber- 3.5% max
moisture- 7% max
crude ash- 15% max
Also includes at least 400 ppm of Astaxanthin
Ingredients: Krill/Fish/Squid Meal, Haematocococus, Calcium Phosphate, Guar Gum, Soy Lecithin, potato Starch, Wheat Flour, Betaine, Licorice Plant, Fish Oil, Apple Extract, Wheat germ. (My fish and corals go crazy for this stuff so it would be cool if I could feed it to the feeders.
I just not sure what I should be looking to supplement in the food and what I should be avoiding.
OP
OP
duberii
Valuable Member
There are pellets- they're really the only thing I've ever fed my fish because I had them and my fish (and corals) eat them like candy, but I'm not an expert in fish nutrition (clearly) so I can't testify as to how good they are for anything beyond saying my corals are growing and my fish are healthy. I could also pre soak the pellets in B1 just in case- I haven't read anything about overdosing predators with B1.
Are ghost shrimp, guppies, and mollies the best foods or just the cheapest? I've been reading that variety is everything with predators so I'd like to toss in a "treat" every so often- if these are the best food, I guess I could just alternate between these 3, but I'm curious if there's any other particularly good live foods.
If you read through some of my other post you'll see why I recommend these 3 foods. Live food is a complete package of nutrition. I have exclusively fed my preds for years on mollies only. I do like to mix the shrimp and appropriate sized fish. You can also supplement their feeding with dead foods, if they will take it, fresh salmon and hikari brand silversides; read some of my other post to find out why I recommend these foods.
Your little guy (girl?) is absolutely adorable. Congrats.
OP
OP
duberii
Valuable Member
Thank you! I tried to find out which one it is- turns out most frogfish are pretty much impossible to sex. The exception is those freaky deep sea ones- they show sexual parasitism- look it up, it's kind of funny.
OP
OP
duberii
Valuable Member
Sounds like those dead feedings would be rare- probably once every other month or something, and seeing as they only eat once a week, that's decently uncommon. I wonder if my corals would like some salmon- maybe then I could justify buying it (or maybe I'll just make some sushi).
OP
OP
duberii
Valuable Member
Minor update: I think I might take the angler home tomorrow! I ordered some amphipods that will be arriving tomorrow so I’ll start by feeding it that. They should last me a bit before it gets big enough to feed anything but those.
In other news, I’m pretty certain it’s a warty- it’s second dorsal spine was just not extended, but I was able to snap this pic, which has that notable “sail”
It’s starting to get a little red by the fins, so perhaps it’s trying to get more purple to match the rock?
I also have a video of it using its lure- I’ll upload that to YouTube and post it in a bit.
In other news, I’m pretty certain it’s a warty- it’s second dorsal spine was just not extended, but I was able to snap this pic, which has that notable “sail”
It’s starting to get a little red by the fins, so perhaps it’s trying to get more purple to match the rock?
I also have a video of it using its lure- I’ll upload that to YouTube and post it in a bit.
OP
OP
duberii
Valuable Member
@lion king I'm thinking about your comment about keeping frogfish in cooler water- Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think frogfish are cold-blooded, so their metabolic speed depends on their body temperature. In that case, lowering the temperature would more than likely make them more likely to get gut rot or something along those lines...
This is why I came to that conclusion, 1st, people can not keep these long at all. In the best conditions and cared for by experienced hobbyist they rarely live more than 3 years. Something is very wrong here. I' ve seen reports and even confirmed by people who have seen them while diving, that they are living in waters below 70 degrees. I'm talking about keeping them at about 68-70 degrees. Other species that people could never keep are now being kept long term successfully because of keeping in cooler waters, these include the catalina goby, some varieties of jawfish, and some varieties of trunk fish. People still to this day fail in long term success with the jawfish simply because of keeping the water too warm.
I don't know what the true lifespan in the wild is of the anglers we keep, but it has to be more than 3 years. So we are definitely doing something wrong, or these guys need to be left in the ocean. Unless they came to us with some sort genetic issue which shortens their life, we should be able to provide them at least that they get in the wild.
Since they are listed at the tropical range of 72-78, maybe just keeping them at the bottom of that range, 72.
Last edited:
OP
OP
duberii
Valuable Member
Interesting- I'd probably need a heater/chiller combo in that case, which doesn't make that easy for me to achieve. I'm also nervous that the lower temperature would be more susceptible to temp swings without a heater. I think that would do the poor guy in before any temperature based issues do. I'll think on it.
Similar threads
