I want an Angler So Bad.

lion king

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pygmies are the tiny ones right? From a quick search it appears people are keeping them in tanks between 2 and 10 gallons, which sounds like an issue to me. I also haven't read anything about feeding live food, which you have taught me is huge for predators...

Another questions (which may be a stupid one) is will some of my corals/anemones be dangerous to them? I have a BTA, rock anemone, dendrophyllia, and a frogspawn, all of which I'm worried about harming the frogfish. From what I've found frogfish have thick skin that should protect them quite a bit against stinging animals like corals and anemones, but I'm also coming up with anecdotal evidence that corals can sting them and harm their health. I assume the corals just did the already dying frogfish in, since most people don't care for them properly anyways, but I'd like to hear if you have anything on the topic.

I've never kept them with anemones before so you'll have to figure that out, they do walk around and will just walk over and park on anything they like. So if an anemone can sting and kill or eat an angler I can't answer. That's something someone more familiar with anemones may be able to answer. I have kept them with euphillias ,acans, and even meat corals which I have seen eat small fish that decided to perch on them, with no ill effects to the angler. Like most fish if something stings them they'll just avoid it, I'm not sure how deadly of a sting your anemones have.

In another tank I had a meat coral and it was a tank with more smaller type reef fishes. All of a sudden I had fish disappearing, then one day I saw the meat coral eating a goby. That meat coral had a powerful enough sting to stun the fish enough for it wrap it's tentacles around before the fish was able to get loose. So like I said I'm not familiar with anemones if they have the same capabilities, and to what degree toward an angler.
 
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duberii

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I've never kept them with anemones before so you'll have to figure that out, they do walk around and will just walk over and park on anything they like. So if an anemone can sting and kill or eat an angler I can't answer. That's something someone more familiar with anemones may be able to answer. I have kept them with euphillias ,acans, and even meat corals which I have seen eat small fish that decided to perch on them, with no ill effects to the angler. Like most fish if something stings them they'll just avoid it, I'm not sure how deadly of a sting your anemones have.

In another tank I had a meat coral and it was a tank with more smaller type reef fishes. All of a sudden I had fish disappearing, then one day I saw the meat coral eating a goby. That meat coral had a powerful enough sting to stun the fish enough for it wrap it's tentacles around before the fish was able to get loose. So like I said I'm not familiar with anemones if they have the same capabilities, and to what degree toward an angler.
I'm asking because I know fish tend to avoid things that sting them, but regardless, my scooter blenny seems to swim on into my dendro whenever it gets too excited about feeding time. She will never learn...

My BTA and RFA probably wouldn't be able to swallow an angler anyway, but that doesn;t mean it can's sting one to death. I guess this is a side note, but your meat coral ate fish?? My cynarina doesn't keep its tentacles out, and will only really bring them out during feeding time, but I didn't realize how strong of a sting they have!
 

lion king

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If they are not taking a scooter blenny down, they are not going to take down an angler. Some wartys do come in barely more than a inch though.
 

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Have you ever seen this website

 

samnaz

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Wealth of great info in this thread so far! Lionking is the pred pro around here. I’ve wanted a wartskin/painted angler for yeeeears. I too won’t get one until I’m 100% sure I’m capable of giving it its best life, just wanna say I appreciate your effort. I saw one at the LFS once and I freaked (first time seeing one irl) the painted anglers are the cutest things in the whole world I swear.
5024D946-FC49-4397-AFA9-1AC7E7FF16EB.jpeg
 

lion king

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Wealth of great info in this thread so far! Lionking is the pred pro around here. I’ve wanted a wartskin/painted angler for yeeeears. I too won’t get one until I’m 100% sure I’m capable of giving it its best life, just wanna say I appreciate your effort. I saw one at the LFS once and I freaked (first time seeing one irl) the painted anglers are the cutest things in the whole world I swear.
5024D946-FC49-4397-AFA9-1AC7E7FF16EB.jpeg

That one would be so hard to take care of. I would start that one out on pods, copepods and amphipods. Mysids shrimp would be good also if you could find them, and afford them. Guppy fry and ghost shrimp fry if you could breed them yourself. Then eventually the smallest ghosties and guppies. It would be fun but very challenging.
 

Daniel@R2R

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Wealth of great info in this thread so far! Lionking is the pred pro around here. I’ve wanted a wartskin/painted angler for yeeeears. I too won’t get one until I’m 100% sure I’m capable of giving it its best life, just wanna say I appreciate your effort. I saw one at the LFS once and I freaked (first time seeing one irl) the painted anglers are the cutest things in the whole world I swear.
5024D946-FC49-4397-AFA9-1AC7E7FF16EB.jpeg
I love this one!! Haha! So tiny!
 
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duberii

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I showed my mom the painted angler, and she didn't hate it! It was also my birthday yesterday, and I got some credit to my LFS (my parents know me so well). I'll try asking them if they could custom order an angler (or more specifically a painted angler). I was also thinking that I could get a clam, since it seems like the angler would leave it alone- Ideally I could get a maxima so it could be placed on my rocks, but I'll probably get a derasa or squamosa since they're more forgiving. It all depends on what my LFS has though.
 
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duberii

duberii

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Turns out my LFS gets them in every so often- looks like I got lucky. I'm setting up a freshwater tank now for guppies and ghost shrimp- I'll cycle it asap so I can get the ball rolling on the breeding before I need to start feeding- with the fallow period of my tank I'm sure I'll be able to get it going
 
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duberii

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LFS says they'll get a white angler in tomorrow, but I have no idea how to determine what type of angler it is based on appearance even- are there any tricks to telling the different kinds apart? I've only ever seen pictures of white warty anglers, but that doesn't seem like a very scientific way to determine species....
 
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duberii

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Not sure how helpful this is but here's a picture of it. The shipment is from Bali/Sri Lanka if that helps
IMG_2483.PNG
 
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duberii

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ga-a.pictus_white.jpg
Found this picture- it says it's a juvenile painted angler. That makes me think- will it develop color as it grows older or are there white painted anglers?
 

lion king

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The natural color comes from their chameleon like attributes. They imprint color to camouflage themselves into their surroundings. Many of them live among sponges thats why you see alot of red and yellows. You need to provide color in your tank for them to maintain their color, or within a couple of months will imprint whats in your tank. If all you have is rock they will likely become greyish or greenish or whatever the colors are in your tank.
 
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duberii

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The natural color comes from their chameleon like attributes. They imprint color to camouflage themselves into their surroundings. Many of them live among sponges thats why you see alot of red and yellows. You need to provide color in your tank for them to maintain their color, or within a couple of months will imprint whats in your tank. If all you have is rock they will likely become greyish or greenish or whatever the colors are in your tank.
Hmm I'm starting to get a decent amount of coralline- maybe I can get it to become red (perhaps wishful thinking)- Do you think the one in the picture is a painted angler/ is there any way of knowing?
 
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duberii

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Look through and read through the website I posted above
The one at my LFS is only about an inch long- it would probably be much harder to feed that way. I'd probably need live mysis shrimp to feed it since anything else would be too big. I could also probably do something like rilli shrimp, but those are pretty expensive. I have also heard that they would need to eat every 2-3 days when they're smaller. As I'm reading more and more, I'm starting to become wary of fatty liver disease. Clearly, I have a lot more research to do.

I'm also starting to rethink my guppy setup- I just don't think they're the best nutritionally, even if I gut load them (based on what I've read). I have no idea what a better alternative would be; I know variety would be best but I hardly know my options.

I'd also probably have to get a smaller tank for it atm... It would easily get lost and have a hard time finding food in my tank at its current size- it would probably be best for me to wait for a larger specimen to come in. I also keep hearing they likely are imported with internal parasites that can be treated with something like Praziquantel once it gets a steady feeding schedule. Not sure what you'd think. My LFS wants something like $90 for that guy so I'm not sure if I'd want to take any risks.
 
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lion king

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Take a pic and post it here, I'll try to ID for you. I would highly suggest not using any meds at all. I've had a few dispute me on prazi pro but then the angler passes away shortly after. Following theoretical nutritional advice from people who have never kept these types of fish, or never had any long term success, is not something I would do. I have longer success than anyone I have ever known and my predators have a dominant diet of live ghosties, guppies, and mollies. You can even see dissections of some of my lions after 8 years of being on this diet, and the fat deposits was less than what you see in dissections of wild lions. You can click my name and "find all threads" to find my post of long term success that span years. Guppies and mollies are as close to a natural saltwater diet as you can get; but much safer, less expensive, and easier to achieve. They are actually brackish fish which can even be acclimated to full reef, they have a similar protein and fat structure as saltwater fish, and have the live gut flora that is likely the key to longevity. Mollies live and breed in the wild in sg as high as 1.017 and guppies as high 1.009.

These are the type of fish that you just have to risk, if you are not up to that, then you should pass. If one is at your lfs and he is eating, that's about the best you are going to get. You will have to harvest the smallest ghosties and guppies to feed the little ones first, and yes the little itty bittys could benefit from feeding more frequent. Mysids shrimp would be a good options, but just a few sources and very expensive. Amphipods are good as well but you would have to culture these yourself. You can see the little warty I raised and kept for 3 years here: Look at that face: new angler | REEF2REEF Saltwater and Reef Aquarium Forum

I've learned more since then and believe if I decided to keep another, I would be more successful. Live foods, less frequent feedings, and cooler temps like around 70-72.
 

lion king

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Not sure how helpful this is but here's a picture of it. The shipment is from Bali/Sri Lanka if that helps
IMG_2483.PNG

Oh I didn't see you had posted a pic. The region he came from would include many species of frogfish. The shape of the tail, the solid color, and the distinct 3 eyespots on the dorsal fin; I would guess(only guess), that this is a painted angler. I would rule out a warty because the shape of the tail is definitely not a warty tail; there is no eye patch or saddle, the color is too uniform. $90 is a good price for a warty, but I would not be satisfied that this is a warty; any of the other Antennarius species would be overpriced at that size. They are very difficult to ID at that size, and all the antennarius species can get confused, even by experts, and I am NO expert.
 
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duberii

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Oh I didn't see you had posted a pic. The region he came from would include many species of frogfish. The shape of the tail, the solid color, and the distinct 3 eyespots on the dorsal fin; I would guess(only guess), that this is a painted angler. I would rule out a warty because the shape of the tail is definitely not a warty tail; there is no eye patch or saddle, the color is too uniform. $90 is a good price for a warty, but I would not be satisfied that this is a warty; any of the other Antennarius species would be overpriced at that size. They are very difficult to ID at that size, and all the antennarius species can get confused, even by experts, and I am NO expert.
I went for it- ended up being $120 (!) but I thought that the smaller size means I could possibly keep it for the longer end of the spectrum, so it may be worth it. I had another thought as well- I have amphipods that loosely look like this
Gammarus-roeselii.jpg

I got a 13-gallon tank for the frogfish to stay in as it grows a bit, and I was thinking about if there was a way for me to harvest them and throw them into the frogfish's tank... I feel like it would be a better food source for them (or maybe I'm just saying that because now I'd actually be feeding a saltwater fish a saltwater crustacean instead of a brackish one). I could still try to gut load them beforehand as well. Regardless, I got a 10 gallon system going to breed ghost shrimp and maybe down the road guppies or something. At the moment, the frogfish is eating pretty much newly hatched ghost shrimp, so it is probably gonna get to the size where it would be able to eat these isopods. They love my chaeto so I could probably swish my chaeto in clean saltwater then pour that water through a net. Should I be worried about overeating them though? They're usually beneficial to a system as a while, but I'm not sure if the frogfish would catch all of them that it could get and end up eating itself to death.
 
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