I washed my rocks like a fool and now we’ll it was predictable.

kecked

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Well the title says it all and I should have and did know better but here I am.
I have had a reef for 20 years. Over the last year my tank declined and I lost one coral after another.
I saw my tank was full of dirty and decided to clean EVERYTHiNG except the sponge filter in my sump.
this occurred after a heater failure that sent my temp to 90f. So since I lost everything but the fish I decide to wash the live rock
….and wash it in tap water ( been fine if I used tank water) plus pull the heavy layer of hair algae off. I got a 1.5lbs bag of crap out of the tank.

predicatable ammonia spiked so I did a 50% change and added doses of cycle everyday to get the cycle back on track. Skimmers went nuts of course but here we come to why I posted. Oh ammonia hit 4ppm and fish were breathing hard so I added a d dose of prime. Fish are now happy but I’ve got a chemistry nightmare.

ammonia hangs around 1ppm as more algae is still dying and the tank is cycling. My nitrates were around 10pm when I started and after adding the bacteria dropped to zero. You’ll see where I’m going. Alkalinity is at 20. Thank you prime. Nitrites zero always. Phosphate first dropped as the nitrate dropped so the bacteria is doing something. Phosphate now has risen to 0.7 from 0.15. I assume this because the nitrate is gone now.

so I keep adding bacteria daily and my skim is good and dark. I added some gfo and carbon to get the phosphate back down.
thinking of another 50% water change and keeping up the bacteria addition.

so question is why would the nitrate drop to zero and phosphate initially drop but now it’s rising and the ammonia is constant. I figured the ammonia was converted to nitrate and that would keep going since I have phosphate and plenty of organic. Did prime kill the bacteria I added. I mean I added 500 ml of 15x bacteria in four days.
I am assuming I had some bacteria that eat the nitrate and now that it is gone that’s that. I assume the bacteria to convert the ammonia is still working back into the 50 lbs of rockwork. Ahh it’s a 65gal tank sorry forgot.

so other than the ammonia and high alk the fish seem happy. Just ride out the cycle or is something more going on. Should I keep up prime or dump it? Ph is low at around 8.1.

signed the idiot.never ever wash all your rock!
 

sc50964

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Wash it in salt water….

Hair algae was also helping you to control nutrient so that means you had nutrient transport issue with your filter setup.
 

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Not a chemistry expert, but from I understand Prime just detoxifies ammonia. Do you have any bio media like the Brightwell Genesis rock that will convert ammonia/nitrites to nitrates?
 
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Yea well no I have nothing. So figured keep fish happy and get it back to a fish only and move back to corals but have to get there. Temped to start a new tank add the fish and recycle from scratch the old tank with me live rock. I have star fish bubble algae, glass anemone, etc. so not that unhappy to start over.
 
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Not a chemistry expert, but from I understand Prime just detoxifies ammonia. Do you have any bio media like the Brightwell Genesis rock that will convert ammonia/nitrites to nitrates?
Nope but I figured massive amount of live bacteria should do the job.
 

sc50964

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Not a chemistry expert, but from I understand Prime just detoxifies ammonia. Do you have any bio media like the Brightwell Genesis rock that will convert ammonia/nitrites to nitrates?
I am not exactly sure but I don’t think prime gets rid of ammonia if that’s what you mean. I could be wrong but my impression from researching on it years ago is that its benefit or effectiveness is only temporary and a large water change is needed shortly after.
 

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Prime registers on ammonia tests. You can't get an accurate reading until the prime is gone, which takes 72 hours+. I would just stop the prime and see if the ammonia drops.

All prime does is change the form of the ammonia to the non-toxic variety. Your bio filter can still eat this form just fine. Unfortunately the tests break it back apart and so can't distinguish between toxic and non-toxic forms.
 

blaxsun

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I am not exactly sure but I don’t think prime gets rid of ammonia if that’s what you mean. I could be wrong but my impression from researching on it years ago is that its benefit or effectiveness is only temporary and a large water change is needed shortly after.
That's what I meant, yes (it's still present, just non-toxic) - hence you need something like a water change or bio media to permanently reduce it.
 

sc50964

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That's what I meant, yes (it's still present, just non-toxic) - hence you need something like a water change or bio media to permanently reduce it.
From seachem

How long does Prime® stay bound to the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates?
A: Prime® will bind up those compounds for up to 48 hours. If they are still present after that time frame, they are released back into the water, unless Prime® is re-dosed accordingly. Also, if your ammonia or nitrite levels are increasing within a 24-hour period, Prime® can be re-dosed every 24 hours.
 

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From seachem

How long does Prime® stay bound to the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates?
A: Prime® will bind up those compounds for up to 48 hours. If they are still present after that time frame, they are released back into the water, unless Prime® is re-dosed accordingly. Also, if your ammonia or nitrite levels are increasing within a 24-hour period, Prime® can be re-dosed every 24 hours.
A2: Buy more Prime! :rolling-on-the-floor-laughing:
 
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Just finish 50% change. Added more bacteria and a polishing filter. That’s it. i think I’ll leave it go with just bacteria additions for a week and see. I’ve read on prime and I’m thinking it’s not helping me. It’s a reducer and what I need is an oxidizer. Ie bacteria. I feel rather stupid. I know better.
 
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Yes your right the algae was a major consumer of ammonia and nitrate before. Oh well 20 years was a good run.
 
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Confirmed on the test. Actually it does as I tried it in a test tube but I think I added so much I just shifted the ph and the indicator was no longer working. I will say the fish stopped breathing hard which is what I was after. They are eating again too. So thinking too many changes and now I just cool it and wait it out with frequent water changes and removal of details. Not one bristle worm survived.
 

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Confirmed on the test. Actually it does as I tried it in a test tube but I think I added so much I just shifted the ph and the indicator was no longer working. I will say the fish stopped breathing hard which is what I was after. They are eating again too. So thinking too many changes and now I just cool it and wait it out with frequent water changes and removal of details. Not one bristle worm survived.
 

sc50964

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Prime doesn’t detoxify ammonia. It’s false advertising.
I think it helps for a short time as such allows time for WC. It is a good & common practice to use prime when fish is shipped.
 
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It makes problems and after using it I’d never do it again. So heres what happened yes my fish seemed happier so maybe it did help,them not sure but then I fought the water chemistry with truely insane alk levels. i had added a full bottle of brightwell bacteria for cycling and it just didn’t kick. Today I added 50 ml of cycle and in 6 hours ammonia dropped to 0.25 from 4! And nitrates climbed to 10. I put Gfo on it to drive phosphate down as I hit 0.75 but I’m trying an experiment and turned off the gfo. I want to see if incan repeat the phosphate drop with nitrate drop again. I also saw the ph drop to 7.85 just before I saw the cycle kick into gear so I guess that was the nitrates forming. I used a little NaOH to move the ph back to 8 and I’ll hold it there until the ammonia drops back to zero and alk drops to something more reasonable. If I get the same effect the nitrate will vanish again. Whatever bugs I got in there can process nitrate to nitrogen provided I have phosphate for them. Anyway looks like it’s making progress. I certainly won’t repeat this error.
 
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I’m on page 7 of the prime doesn’t work thread. Why is my alk 20? Ph dropped to 7.85. Fish then not having as hard a time. I think prime works by lowering the ph! Then the ammonia is less toxic on its own. Why was an entire bottle of fresh bacteria not enough but a dose of NaOH to bring the oh back up and one dose of cycle kicked off the cycle in 6 hours dropping ammonia to 0.25. Hoping zero in the morning. Well science says prime doesn’t detoxify ammonia but it sure drops the ph which does.
 

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