Ich and qt

BadFish619

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 28, 2019
Messages
881
Reaction score
3,420
Location
San Diego
Well after years of flawless tanks, as in no ich, I have run face first into the ich wall. I want to know exactly how I should do this and what products you guys recommend. Today I see white spots on half the fish. Not very many spots but its ich alright. Caught it early i hope. I have 9 fish going into a 20 gallon. All on the smaller side. So what now? Just copper? Hypo and copper? Will 20 gallons suffice? Nightmare!
 
Corals.com

Mjrenz

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 18, 2019
Messages
2,780
Reaction score
5,959
Location
King George, Virginia
Well after years of flawless tanks, as in no ich, I have run face first into the ich wall. I want to know exactly how I should do this and what products you guys recommend. Today I see white spots on half the fish. Not very many spots but its ich alright. Caught it early i hope. I have 9 fish going into a 20 gallon. All on the smaller side. So what now? Just copper? Hypo and copper? Will 20 gallons suffice? Nightmare!
Can you provide a list of your fish? Some treatments are safe for some but not for others. You can't use hypo and copper together just so you know. Some pics to confirm a diagnosis would help as well
 

Dom

If it isn't broken, don't fix it.
View Badges
Joined
Apr 29, 2016
Messages
2,168
Reaction score
2,110
Location
NY
Only encountered it once. FW dips and hypo salinity solved the problem.
 
OP
BadFish619

BadFish619

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 28, 2019
Messages
881
Reaction score
3,420
Location
San Diego
Thinking I'm going to do a huge water change and run a uv sterilizer. I have a butterfly that I know won't make it through copper. 2 angels, 2 fire fish, 2 clowns, banded stripe goby. Think I'll try it before I try to catch them all and qt. Not too keen on keeping all them in a 20 gallon
 

cancun

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 8, 2013
Messages
1,217
Reaction score
1,850
Location
Southern Illinois
Well after years of flawless tanks, as in no ich, I have run face first into the ich wall. I want to know exactly how I should do this and what products you guys recommend. Today I see white spots on half the fish. Not very many spots but its ich alright. Caught it early i hope. I have 9 fish going into a 20 gallon. All on the smaller side. So what now? Just copper? Hypo and copper? Will 20 gallons suffice? Nightmare!
Wow! Did you add anything new recently like a new fish, coral, etc? Just curious how ich got into your system.....
 
OP
BadFish619

BadFish619

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 28, 2019
Messages
881
Reaction score
3,420
Location
San Diego
Wow! Did you add anything new recently like a new fish, coral, etc? Just curious how ich got into your system.....
Sure did and he's dead can't find him anywhere. Hoping my crabs eat him up because I can't find him anywhere. And before anyone asks I did not qt, lol, never have. I get my fish from a trusted source. Only this time I grabbed him early before my lfs was able to qt him. After over 15 years I finally learned my lesson. I'm now debating on uv sterilizer and water change to help manage rather than pull everything out. Also thinking it may be easier to remove all rock from DT, then treat the DT. Think it might be easier than catching fish. Idk, just throwing ideas out. Like I said never dealt with this so I'm essentially new in this area and don't know how to approach it
 
OP
BadFish619

BadFish619

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 28, 2019
Messages
881
Reaction score
3,420
Location
San Diego
Then again, not sure I can fit 80 pounds of rock into a 20 gallon tank. Just not sure if the small quarters of a 20 will house all these guys for an extended period of time
 

Cell

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Messages
847
Reaction score
917
First of all, best practice is to NEVER dose copper in a display tank, and to use a quarantine tank. It is much easier and safer. Copper in a DT can heavily dampen your nitrogen cycle in your tank, and will leach in to your rock, substrate, and equipment. As a result, the amount of copper you'll need to dose will be astronomically higher in a DT. You may well have ammonia issues because it hinders your nitrogen cycles to varying degrees for a bit. It also makes your copper levels volitile (due to leaching) which is not conducive for an effective 30 day treatment with copper-- as the levels cannot ever dip below 2PPM for chelated copper (such as coppersafe, copperaid, and copper power) or .5PPM (.6 is what I use) for ionic copper (such as cupramine). If the levels do drop below this threshold at any point, you restart your 30 day clock. This can take weeks to stabilize, and subjects your fish to more time in copper than need be. Some fish handle it fine, others may struggle.

So, now that you've been advised NOT to use copper in a DT, here's how I have successfully removed it 5-6 times over the years, succcessfully. My 180 reef has run through copper treatments 3 times over the years and housed clams, inverts, coral, etc without issue afterward.

2018 Edit: If you’re bent on using copper in your DT, buy a Hanna copper checker to accurately measure copper so that your efforts need not be repeated many times due to copper swings.

This works for all types of copper. Polyfiber pads remove chelated copper better, cuprisorb removes ionic copper faster. I use all three regardless.

I use poly fiber pads, cuprisorb, and carbon in conjunction with MASSIVE water changes. After two massive water changes I replace all of the media and let it run a week with all new cuprisorb, carbon, and polyfiber pads and test after a full week. The process takes about two weeks in my experience. Here's how I do it:

Before Treatment:
Remove all rock, coral, and inverts you wish to keep. You can leave some rock for structure but PVC as a replacement is more advisable. I've always left some rock in the tank for structure, say 10-20% of what was there originally. This will work if you don't remove most or all rock but it increases your chances of the removal being more difficult. Remove all carbon, media, phosban, filter pads, seeding sponges (I keep one in sump for seeding new tanks) before dosing copper. Buy an ammonia alert badge by seachem to monitor ammonia, as most tests will test false positives in copper. You can skim for the duration of treatment, or at least I do.

Before Copper Removal:
Remove most/all rock used in the copper treatment. Sand (if applicable) can stay. Equipment and everything else is fine.

Step 1) giant water change (85-90%)
Step 2) add cuprisorb, carbon, and pokyfiber pads
Step 3) replace poly fiber pad after 3-4 days. I run it attached to powerhead for max exposure/flow
Step 4) wait a week, giant water change again.
Step 5) replace all media, wait another week
Step 6) giant water change again. Leave media in for 1-2 more weeks.
Step 7) Test after one week. If not zero, repeat large water change and replace all media.
Step 8) Don't add coral or inverts back until after 3 consecutive days testing twice per day of 0 copper readings. I would recommend using more than one brand of copper test to confirm.

I've done this several times and had the coral back in 2-4 weeks. Test several times over a period of a few days to be sure before adding inverts/coral.

Again, don't go through all of this aggravation. Get a quarantine. This is a pain in the neck and a lot of unnecessary work and risk you need not take in 99/100 cases. Use a hospital tank/QT, instead.

Update: Here is my analysis report from @Christoph. There’s an interesting piece here for the level of copper in my tank after using copper in this tank (and the same sand and rocks remain, I have done it a few times in the same sand and rock) over the years. See below.

2F43730D-64B8-4986-92C4-2AAC5F442974.png
 

Have you ever been accused of talking to much about your tank?

  • Yes (tell us about it)

    Votes: 218 55.2%
  • No

    Votes: 177 44.8%

Online statistics

Members online
1,833
Guests online
4,008
Total visitors
5,841
Battlecorals
Aqua SD
Top