Na Paul, it was whatever went in-to- the-netWhen I started keeping fish in the fifties the internet was what was in the bottom of the net.
Ich infection rate in the wild
- Thread starter Humblefish
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Predation, once a fish gets weak enough by ich or anything else it becomes somebody's meal.Immunity. And they stay immune because they are constantly exposed. Now isn't that special. What a concept.
A lot of the no quarantine seams to revolve around ich management. Drop a new fish in, had spots then they go away.
Are there examples of dropped a fish in, had velvet or flukes then they went away? All fish then lived until they died of old age?
To date I've had poor success with fish. Two alive out of nine. I dont think I'm necessarily doing anything drastically wrong.
First three went through the quarantine process outlined here on the forum. All made it to the DT. Two died in the DT, for no cause that I could see, but I'm not a fish doctor. Which it seams like you need to be at times.
The next two went through an observation quarantine. A wrasse died in the QT. I think it got a spinal injury, tail on the bottom like a weight was on it. In hindsight maybe it was affected by flukes as well. Didn't know flukes were present until I transferred the Royal Gramma in there to the DT.
Ended up loosing the Royal Gramma and a Cardinal I had to the flukes. I think the flukes were Prazi resistant. I got the Cardinal through hypo, but it ended up dying.
The next batch of four fish I just dropped straight in the DT. After it had gone follow. After a few days on the DT I noticed spots on one (firefish) and two others (blenny and chalk bass) flashing. The blenny was swimming into the flow of the powerhead. So I thought the worst, possible velvet. I noticed no issues with the other fish (possum wrasse). So I got all out into the QT with copper. All seamed fine for some time. The blenny suddenly died. I think it was from a piece of dirt I saw the fish eat when I was feeding white worms. I missed it and was surprised the fish ingested it, it died within two days of eating the dirt. All was fine with the fish prior. The Bass died after recovering from a popeye. The fish had popeye, the eye recovered, the fish died. Not sure what happened.
I have the firefish and possum wrasse still in the QT and done with copper treatment. The 76 days follow will end on April 5th, when they'll go back into the DT.
I'm feeding LRS, white worms and selcon. Even having Paul's book next to my tank doesn't seam to help!
Maybe I should just keep coral and inverts, since I'm not having any issues with those.
Are there examples of dropped a fish in, had velvet or flukes then they went away? All fish then lived until they died of old age?
To date I've had poor success with fish. Two alive out of nine. I dont think I'm necessarily doing anything drastically wrong.
First three went through the quarantine process outlined here on the forum. All made it to the DT. Two died in the DT, for no cause that I could see, but I'm not a fish doctor. Which it seams like you need to be at times.
The next two went through an observation quarantine. A wrasse died in the QT. I think it got a spinal injury, tail on the bottom like a weight was on it. In hindsight maybe it was affected by flukes as well. Didn't know flukes were present until I transferred the Royal Gramma in there to the DT.
Ended up loosing the Royal Gramma and a Cardinal I had to the flukes. I think the flukes were Prazi resistant. I got the Cardinal through hypo, but it ended up dying.
The next batch of four fish I just dropped straight in the DT. After it had gone follow. After a few days on the DT I noticed spots on one (firefish) and two others (blenny and chalk bass) flashing. The blenny was swimming into the flow of the powerhead. So I thought the worst, possible velvet. I noticed no issues with the other fish (possum wrasse). So I got all out into the QT with copper. All seamed fine for some time. The blenny suddenly died. I think it was from a piece of dirt I saw the fish eat when I was feeding white worms. I missed it and was surprised the fish ingested it, it died within two days of eating the dirt. All was fine with the fish prior. The Bass died after recovering from a popeye. The fish had popeye, the eye recovered, the fish died. Not sure what happened.
I have the firefish and possum wrasse still in the QT and done with copper treatment. The 76 days follow will end on April 5th, when they'll go back into the DT.
I'm feeding LRS, white worms and selcon. Even having Paul's book next to my tank doesn't seam to help!
Maybe I should just keep coral and inverts, since I'm not having any issues with those.
WvAquatics
Valuable Member
Did you use live rock? Just wondering.
The bars and restaurants in MN closed tonight at 5. Went to Costco on a regular liquor run at 4:30. Apparently it’s not just TP that gets people concerned
. Everyone had carts and flatbeds full of enough booze for a month or two. Never seen such long lines to checkout.
WvAquatics
Valuable Member
I'm starting to see a trend with disease management and it all seems to point to live ocean rock. Paul uses mud and stuff from the ocean. This being said alot of people keep fish and qt and dry rock that do pretty well. I would start a new thread asking for some insight on your procedure.
Paul B
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Yes, many. I am sure most of my fish that I bought or collected had flukes, velvet, ich or something else.
I bought a copperband a couple of 3 days ago and he has some kind of gill parasites and has not eaten yet.
That happens all the time when you buy a new fish because in the store they are in copper or some other medication that is keeping you from seeing those afflictions. When you remove that fish and put it in your tank, the parasites show and grow.
"Depending on how long it has been since the fish ate and how long it was in transit and in the dealers and stores tank it will live or not."
We can't expect a fish to live if it has not eaten in a month and is severely stressed and full of gill parasites. Sometimes they die, it's life.
But if the fish can live long enough for those parasites to reproduce and fall off the fish, he will be fine.
If the rest of the fish in your tank are in great condition and immune, they also will be fine.
If my copperband gets comfortable enough to swim around and eat soon, he will live for another ten years (I am not sure I will live that long)
(I bought this fish without even looking at it. I was in a big hurry as my wife had a medical problem and I couldn't hang around. )
If your tank is not immune and your fish are not in spawning shape, they will all probably die so you should quarantine everything as only fish in great shape will be immune.
If you feed flakes, pellets and dry foods on a regular basis, you should quarantine as your fish will not be in great shape. If your paired fish are not spawning or making spawning gestures, you should quarantine.
If your tank is fairly new, it won't be in great shape no matter what you do. A tank a couple of years old is a new tank.
If you quarantined, dipped or medicated your fish, you should quarantine.
That's just it, I don't think it's necessarily anything out of wack with what I'm doing or that any average fish keeper would do.
The last four fish were doing well. One died after having a popeye from what I think was a mechanical injury. The other died after eating a piece of dirt that fell in from my white worms. The other two have been alive and well in the QT for two months.
I did have prazi resistant flukes get through (took out two fish) and one fish died of a suspected spinal injury, but could have been the flukes as well.
The other two fish, no idea why they died.
If I had to guess, the survival rate of fish from ocean to tank is pretty abysmal. I think a lot of that (not all) falls on the supply chain vice the fish keeper.
We're told that we either need to quarantine and keep everything out, which is quit a task when you take into account coral and invert quarantine, or develop the fishes immunity because they are coming to us without any. Why can't the fish come to us with immunity? If developing that immunity requires live rock or mud from the ocean, then where can a majority of people get that these days?
On quarantine, I do believe that bare bottom and PVC does not help. I have a small layer of crushed coral and fake decorations. The fish seam happier as it gives them places to hide and sleep. I had a piece of PVC in there, and fish never even looked at it.
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All fish from the sea have immunity but there are different strengths of immunity and it starts to wane as soon as the fish is collected and gets less with time. That is why some fish make it and some don't.
If fish in the sea didn't have any immunity, they would die in a matter of minutes.
If you could take a fish right from the sea and in a few minutes throw it in your "stress free" tank and feed it well. It won't have any problems.
The dirt from the worms did not kill your fish and as a matter of fact, I add dirt with my worms every day because "I want the fish to eat the dirt".
Fish in the sea eat dirt and poop all the time as that bacteria is one thing that helps keep the immunity strong in fish. One of the biggest problems IMO in this hobby is the lack of dirt with it's associated bacteria. It's the gut bacteria that the fish (and us) rely on to design it's immunity not the cleanliness that a lot of us feel is the way to go.
We really need to re think this procedure.
Immunity does not require mud from the sea. I add mud to help with water conditions but I add living worms because of the bacteria in their guts as well as clams and yes, dirt from the worms or my garden.
The lack of this is why there are so many people on the disease forum using drugs to cure things rather than allowing nature to do it for us for free.
The picture of your tank doesn't have nearly enough natural looking hiding places especially for the Possum Wrasse which is the type of fish that hardly ever wants to swim out in the open. I currently have 2 of them. They get very colorful when they feel secure.
I don't think it can be concluded that the fish ingesting the clump of dirt absolutely did not kill it. The fish was acting, eating and swimming normal. Within about 36 hours of the ingesting, the fish suddenly died. Maybe it was just a coincidence.
It is a quarantine tank and the fish does not seamed stressed, swimming through and around the fake reef. The fish has been in there for two months and will be going back to the display the beginning of April. I think the fish you have is different, this is a yellowbanded.
Having good water quality and good quality food, a fish wont die from disease or get disease if they are not stressed from bullying or aggression. Number 1 imo is being stress free.
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You may be right about us having different possum wrasses. I am not sure but I am wrong about a lot of things. But I don't think eating dirt will hurt any fish as they do it all the time in the sea.
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